> ## Content Index > Fetch the complete content index at: https://nerdontour.net/llms.txt > Use this file to discover other available public pages before exploring further. # Gigi — Spiritual Pro Skater Pirate from New Caledonia - URL: https://nerdontour.net/gigi-spiritual-pro-skater-pirate-from-new-caledonia/ - Published: 2026-09-22T13:00:20.000Z - Updated: 2026-09-22T14:12:11.000Z - Description: Gigi left New Caledonia at sixteen, got hired on a superyacht knowing nothing about sailing, and survived 37 hours in a force 9 storm. We met at a sailing school in Tenerife and talked yacht jobs, pirates, and life without labels. - Author: Piotrek Bodera - Tags: podcast, #project, New Caledonia, adventure, Tenerife, Spain, #toc ## Who is Gigi? Gigi is a Pacific Islander from New Caledonia. He grew up between the biggest lagoon in the world, the steep streets of Nouméa, and the tribal mates. They taught him to fish, climb coconut trees, and respect the land. As a kid, he grabbed his big brother's rubbish old skateboard. Then got sponsored by the only proper skate shop on the island. And was close to going pro. His family moved to Paris when he was sixteen. Six months in France were enough. He flew back alone, sold Balinese art to tourists, and slept on beaches. Gigi spent years wandering through Australia, New Zealand, and Southeast Asia with everything he owned in one bag. A random chat in a Phuket bar sent him to an STCW safety course. This turned into a free delivery of a brand new Beneteau yacht from Hong Kong to Phuket. Seven or eight years of yacht crew work followed: a 27 meter catamaran in Pattaya, motorboats in Melbourne, superyacht passages, and a 37 hour force 9 storm off Exmouth in Western Australia that almost sank the boat. That misadventure is the reason we met in 2021 at an RYA sailing school in Tenerife. I was doing my Day Skipper. He was working through Coastal Skipper on his way to Yachtmaster Offshore. Gigi hates labels, doesn't care much for flags or passports. Reads Lao Tzu, the Upanishads, and Terence McKenna between watches. > "You're from there, but you don't belong to it. That's why that question really bothered me" – Gigi ## New Caledonia, where Gigi grew up - [New Caledonia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New%5FCaledonia?ref=nerdontour.net) — French territory in the South Pacific, around 1,200 km east of Australia - [Nouméa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noum%C3%A9a?ref=nerdontour.net) — the capital, with the steep streets Gigi used to skate down - [Grande Terre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande%5FTerre?ref=nerdontour.net) — the main island, nicknamed Le Caillou (the rock) in French - [Lagoons of New Caledonia](https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1115?ref=nerdontour.net) — UNESCO World Heritage Site and the reef system considered the biggest lagoon in the world - [Loyalty Islands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyalty%5FIslands?ref=nerdontour.net) — Maré, Lifou, and Ouvéa, east of the main island - [Isle of Pines](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle%5Fof%5FPines%5F%28New%5FCaledonia%29?ref=nerdontour.net) — the southern island known for its tall endemic pines - [Belep](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belep?ref=nerdontour.net) — the small archipelago in the north - [Tropic of Capricorn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropic%5Fof%5FCapricorn?ref=nerdontour.net) — runs near the southern tip of New Caledonia - [Motu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motu?ref=nerdontour.net) — the Polynesian word for the sandbank islets where Gigi's friends' families anchored on weekends - [Kagu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kagu?ref=nerdontour.net) — the flightless bird and national symbol of New Caledonia ![](https://storage.ghost.io/c/16/3e/163e6ae2-f4f9-4a47-9fd9-81c2af8159f2/content/images/2026/09/Kagu_bird-New-Caledonia.jpg) Kagu, the New Caledonian national bird | By [JJ Harrison](https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=123614895&ref=nerdontour.net) \- Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0 - [Javan rusa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javan%5Frusa?ref=nerdontour.net) — the deer introduced to the island, and one of the few land animals there - [James Cook](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James%5FCook?ref=nerdontour.net) — the British navigator who "discovered" New Caledonia in 1774 - [2021 New Caledonian independence referendum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021%5FNew%5FCaledonian%5Findependence%5Freferendum?ref=nerdontour.net) — the third vote on independence from France, held the year we recorded - [French Polynesia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French%5FPolynesia?ref=nerdontour.net) — the other French territory in the Pacific Gigi compared it to - [Réunion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9union?ref=nerdontour.net) — a French overseas department near Madagascar with a pirate past - [Mayotte](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayotte?ref=nerdontour.net) — another French overseas department, in the Comoros archipelago - [Mahi-mahi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahi-mahi?ref=nerdontour.net) — the fish locals live from, along with crayfish and Spanish mackerel ## Skateboarding and movement - [Tony Hawk's Pro Skater](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony%5FHawk%27s%5FPro%5FSkater?ref=nerdontour.net) — the video game I spent more hours on than on a real board, and the only game Gigi ever played - [Tony Hawk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony%5FHawk?ref=nerdontour.net) — the pro skater who is still one of the most influential athletes in the sport - [Ollie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ollie%5F%28skateboarding%29?ref=nerdontour.net) — the first trick Gigi taught himself with no internet, magazines, or videos - [Inline skating](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inline%5Fskating?ref=nerdontour.net) — my own wheels of choice after I gave up on skateboarding ## Sailing, yachting, and yacht jobs - [Royal Yachting Association (RYA)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal%5FYachting%5FAssociation?ref=nerdontour.net) — the British body behind the course we were doing - [Yachtmaster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yachtmaster?ref=nerdontour.net) — the Coastal Skipper and Yachtmaster Offshore certificates Gigi was studying for - [STCW](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STCW?ref=nerdontour.net) — the basic safety training everyone on a commercial yacht needs, even the chef - [Beneteau](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beneteau?ref=nerdontour.net) — the French yard behind the brand new Oceanis 45 Gigi helped deliver from Hong Kong to Phuket - [Automatic Identification System (AIS)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic%5Fidentification%5Fsystem?ref=nerdontour.net) — the screen full of triangles the skipper showed him before going to bed - [Genoa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genoa%5F%28sail%29?ref=nerdontour.net) — the headsail they sailed on for the entire passage to Singapore - [Roller furling](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roller%5Ffurling?ref=nerdontour.net) — the system that broke and got fixed with a bent fork - [Serenity Shipyard](https://serenityshipyard.com/?ref=nerdontour.net) — the French-run multihull builder in Pattaya behind the 27 meter catamaran Gigi looked after - [Beaufort scale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort%5Fscale?ref=nerdontour.net) — force 9 means around 41 to 47 knots, and they got hit by gusts close to 50 - [Liferaft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liferaft?ref=nerdontour.net) — the absolute last resort, which they had ready on deck - [Mayday](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayday?ref=nerdontour.net) — the distress call a fishing trawler almost sent for them - [Port of refuge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port%5Fof%5Frefuge?ref=nerdontour.net) — the safe haven every passage plan needs as Plan B - [Point Break](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point%5FBreak?ref=nerdontour.net) — the movie with the storm Gigi compared his to ![](https://storage.ghost.io/c/16/3e/163e6ae2-f4f9-4a47-9fd9-81c2af8159f2/content/images/2026/09/New-Caledonia.jpg) Lifou, New Caledonia | Photo by [Raelle Cameron](https://unsplash.com/@raegocreative?utm%5Fsource=unsplash&utm%5Fmedium=referral&utm%5Fcontent=creditCopyText) on [Unsplash](https://unsplash.com/photos/a-group-of-people-swimming-in-a-blue-body-of-water-J8RxOyhQRaE?utm%5Fsource=unsplash&utm%5Fmedium=referral&utm%5Fcontent=creditCopyText) ## Places from the conversation - [Phuket](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phuket%5Fprovince?ref=nerdontour.net) — where Gigi did his STCW course and started working on boats - [Hong Kong](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong%5FKong?ref=nerdontour.net) — the start of his first passage, and a city I find fascinating for its mix of cultures - [Singapore](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore?ref=nerdontour.net) — the turning point on the way from Hong Kong to Phuket - [Pattaya](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattaya?ref=nerdontour.net) — the marina town where he lived alone on the catamaran - [Langkawi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langkawi?ref=nerdontour.net) — one of the stops on the troubled delivery back to Phuket - [Melbourne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne?ref=nerdontour.net) — where he rented and skippered motorboats - [Perth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth?ref=nerdontour.net) — the start of the delivery that ended in the storm - [Exmouth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exmouth,%5FWestern%5FAustralia?ref=nerdontour.net) — the tiny fishing port where they arrived half sunk - [Bali](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bali?ref=nerdontour.net) — the next stop, thirteen days after Exmouth - [Kuala Lumpur](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuala%5FLumpur?ref=nerdontour.net) — the final destination of that delivery, and my current base - [Paris](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris?ref=nerdontour.net) — the city Gigi left after six months ## People, books, and ideas - [Carl Barron](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl%5FBarron?ref=nerdontour.net) — the Australian comedian Gigi quoted about Aussies who don't give a damn - [Terence McKenna on reclaiming your mind](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/1244995-reclaim-your-mind-and-get-it-out-of-the-hands?ref=nerdontour.net) — the lecture quote Gigi knows by heart > “Reclaim your mind and get it out of the hands of the cultural engineers who want to turn you into a half-baked moron consuming all this trash that's being manufactured out of the bones of a dying world.” ― Terence McKenna - [Laozi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laozi?ref=nerdontour.net) — Gigi's favorite philosopher and the source of "nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished" - [Tao Te Ching](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tao%5FTe%5FChing?ref=nerdontour.net) — chapter 8 is where the water that benefits the ten thousand things comes from - [Indra's net](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indra%27s%5Fnet?ref=nerdontour.net) — the image of dewdrops reflecting each other to infinity - [Upanishads](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upanishads?ref=nerdontour.net) — the ancient Indian texts Gigi connects to string theory - [Bhagavad Gita](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad%5FGita?ref=nerdontour.net) — Gigi bought his mother an edition with Gandhi's notes - [Yoga Sutras of Patanjali](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga%5FSutras%5Fof%5FPatanjali?ref=nerdontour.net) — part of the yoga reading list that opened his "door to consciousness" - [String theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String%5Ftheory?ref=nerdontour.net) — the physics idea Gigi sees echoed in Indra's net - [Holographic principle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic%5Fprinciple?ref=nerdontour.net) — the "holographic universe" we touched on - [Mandelbrot set](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandelbrot%5Fset?ref=nerdontour.net) — the most famous fractal, and Gigi's coconut theory in math form - [Law of attraction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law%5Fof%5Fattraction%5F%28New%5FThought%29?ref=nerdontour.net) — how Gigi explains always landing on his feet - [Sea otter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea%5Fotter?ref=nerdontour.net) — the animal that uses rocks as tools to crack shells - [Planet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet?ref=nerdontour.net) — from the Greek planētēs, meaning wanderer - [Hitchhiking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchhiking?ref=nerdontour.net) — how the English hippie on Gigi's first passage crossed 120 countries ## Timestamps / Chapters from the conversation with Gigi 00:00 Start. 00:34 A backlog episode from pandemic Tenerife and our RYA sailing course. 04:21 Meet Gigi: the spiritual pro skater pirate from New Caledonia. 05:02 Why "where are you from?" is the worst first question. 06:20 New Caledonia: Le Caillou, the Loyalty Islands, and the biggest lagoon in the world. 10:15 Tribal life, never quite belonging, and running away at eleven. 13:51 No snakes, no spiders: rusa deer, the kagu, and a life lived from the sea. 17:04 Skateboarding as an escape from teachers, rules, and authority. 21:05 Tony Hawk's Pro Skater, inline skates, and the flow of movement. 24:14 Almost pro, then Paris at sixteen: the move that broke him. 27:57 Selling Balinese art, sleeping on beaches, and backpacking across Asia. 30:14 French territory, not a French state: independence and a childhood memory. 32:32 First sailboats on sandbank motus and a dad who taught sailing. 34:44 A Phuket bar, a stranger's question, and the STCW course opens yacht jobs. 39:49 Free passage: delivering a brand new Beneteau yacht from Hong Kong to Phuket. 44:02 First night watch in the South China Sea: flares, tuna socks, and "pirates". 47:09 Thief on water, a rehab boat crew, and a hippie who hitchhiked 120 countries. 50:31 Fixing the furler with a fork, land sickness, and a job offer via strangers. 54:56 Staying innocent and gliding through life without expecting to get conned. 56:43 Yachtmaster in five weeks for a free spirit who hates classrooms. 1:00:26 The superyacht interview in flowery boardshorts and why references matter most. 1:04:29 Keys behind the beers: alone on a 27 meter catamaran with a broke owner. 1:09:22 Cutting fishing nets off the propeller at 3 a.m.: "That's my job." 1:10:54 Tattoos in yachting, a 48 hour powerboat license, and collecting sea time. 1:13:51 Perth to Bali on a tiny racing yacht and a force 9 storm off Exmouth. 1:17:57 Thirty-seven hours without harnesses and a life raft ready on deck. 1:19:45 Arriving 40 centimeters from sinking and the Mayday that almost happened. 1:24:52 The wake-up call: why he finally went back to sailing school. 1:27:15 Reading clouds like old sailors, and why the world becomes your oyster. 1:30:02 Indra's net, fractals, and coconuts. 1:32:53 Labels, language, and why the ocean is waving. 1:37:14 Flags, passports, and rejecting authority with Terence McKenna. 1:42:41 Law of attraction: all I want is freedom. 1:45:33 Gandhi's Gita, the Upanishads, and the internet as a mind in 3D. 1:49:26 Be like water: solitude, reclaiming your mind, and a message of love. 1:55:02 Thanks for listening. ## Quotes > "Everything's still part of me… usually New Caledonia pops up when people ask me where I'm from. I almost don't like the question… I always find it such a weird thing to ask as a first question." — Gigi > "Alright, what have you done? … I'm gonna be honest with you, I know nothing about sailing… References are very, very important. That's the key… You're on board, mate." — Gigi > "You tie a rope around your waist, you go diving at night with a knife… cutting all that from the propeller, three in the morning… and you remember it's your job… That's quite a good life." — Gigi > "Not that I care too much about myself, but you can't put other people's lives in danger. You have to be realistic" — Gigi > "At the center of my very core is this: all I want's freedom… by not thinking about the outcome." — Gigi > "Be like water… you need time alone to reflect. That's where original creation comes from." — Gigi ## Transcript from the conversation with Gigi #### Read the full transcript Gigi (00:00) There's lots of fishing nets as well in in Asia. You can't see them, so loads of fishing nets caught in a propeller. So you tie a rope around your waist, you go diving at night with a knife, hold your brace, free diving, cutting all that from the propeller, three in the morning, at night with rope seat. But then you remember it's your job. It's actually people like in office and factory. It's just like, my not that I've had this experience, but remember that's your job. That's quite a good life. Piotrek Bodera (00:34) All episodes of this podcast are available for free, and to listen more, I encourage you to subscribe on your preferred podcast app. Nerdontour.net is a specialized blog designed for digital nomads, combining the best bits of the internet, long-term traveling, and decentralization. Support the show by using Nerdontour services and recommendations at NerdonTour.net. And now, let's start the show. So this is one of my backlog episodes back from 2021\. And it was a very intense period because the pandemic is still on. Nobody knows when it will finish. And I am living in Tenerife in Canari Islands, a part of Spain where it's always sunny, warm, and very lovely. And I decided to do a sailing course. From the RYA, the Day Skipper, which is like the first level where you can actually rent a boat and go out, explore the seven seas. And I met absolutely amazing bunch of individuals who are participating in this course. And one of them, Gigi, is my guest. He's such an original compilation of Characteristics and in this conversation you will hear from where is he originally and how diverse the culture is of the island where he's from and all the Gigi (02:17) But Piotrek Bodera (02:17) different adventures that made him travel the world without actually having skills to sail, and only after one of those misadventures he decided to. Do a course. So we met at the same time in Tenerife, and we were both becoming sailors. So we talk about pirates in a sense of imagine Gigi (02:44) What you can imagine Piotrek Bodera (02:46) like the pirates of the Caribbean, the very romanticized and Disney colorful version. And we also talk about pro skating and the fascination of Tony Hawk. I love video games promoted by this. Crosskater and he's still a very influential athlete. And we also cover Gigi's spirituality, something that he is very passionate about, and he knows a lot about it. So it's a very wide conversation, and I am really excited that I had this opportunity to met him in person and to record this. I'm sorry for the delay. I'm sorry for some of the background noise because we were actually recording it in a pub close to our sailing school. But nevertheless, I hope you will enjoy it as much as I enjoyed recording it. So let's go. Here we are in Tenerife on the beautiful island in Spain, just by official jurisdiction. It's it's Spain but feels more like Africa. Gigi (04:03) Yeah. Piotrek Bodera (04:05) in northern part of Atlantic, where recently I joined the local sailing school to learn about sailing and to do my RYA Day Skipper. And this is where I met Gigi or GG. Gigi (04:21) G. Piotrek Bodera (04:21) Both of those are correct. Gigi (04:24) Yeah, good. Piotrek Bodera (04:24) So just a little bit of introduction. I was focusing on what is the best way to to describe you? All of the multiple topics that we touched since we met. Exactly, Gigi (04:37) Multiple passion. Piotrek Bodera (04:38) exactly. And I decided that the best way to describe you is to say that you are a spiritual pro-skater pirate from New Caledonia. Gigi (04:50) Yeah, yeah. That's one yeah, yeah, that's one way to see it It's Piotrek Bodera (04:54) Actually. Gigi (04:55) like yeah, skating in New Caledonia seems like such a long Piotrek Bodera (04:58) But it's still part of you, is it? Gigi (05:02) Everything's still part of me, like what I've been through actually, yeah of course. But it's like it's very it's usually New Caledonia pops up when people ask me where I'm from. I would say like I almost like don't really like answering. I almost don't like the question. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like it's just like I I always find like it was such a weird thing to ask as a first question. But I understand it's just my weird mindset. Piotrek Bodera (05:26) And so many people are used to do this, yeah. Like Gigi (05:28) So as like it's in Europe or in Asia it's like it's an odd location apparently to come from. Usually. Piotrek Bodera (05:36) Unusual, unusual like it's very hard to find people who are from such a distant place. Gigi (05:43) Funny enough, like everyone I met happens to know someone either Piotrek Bodera (05:47) Yeah. Gigi (05:48) that notes someone or like they met someone from there. Yeah yeah yeah. But it's yeah no it's I'm happy with the title. Piotrek Bodera (05:55) Yeah, and let's try to focus on each part of it because Gigi (05:59) Right. Piotrek Bodera (06:00) for me that's one of the biggest gifts of traveling, that you can be exposed to people where you cannot even like start to think what was their world when they were growing up. And like what was the influence that they decided to move this direction or that direction? And then It's so unimaginable to then think that we actually met here during this very special time because we both decided in a similar period to do our sailing, you know, certificates. Yeah. So starting from this place that you already described, that so many people are asking you where you're from. I read just some bits and pieces about New Caledonia that is like Over 750 km east from Australia, so Pacific Ocean. Small kind of collection of islands that is still officially part of France, but they are trying to be more independent. How do you like feel about this place? Not only about this like politics or whatever you can read about on Wikipedia, but how do you remember the place? Gigi (07:14) Yeah. So I I would say that I don't know much about the place now. When I came back like a few years ago, but I haven't like basically I left when I was sixteen. My family left when I was sixteen. And I remember the place. I think like you can't really picture a place how it is until you've been somewhere else. Sort of makes sense. You need like a point of comparison, yeah, like an opposite of Piotrek Bodera (07:42) We have a lot of comparison now. Gigi (07:44) No, but at the at the time I didn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was still you're very aware. I was. I was very aware that it was a very peaceful paradise place. The Southern tip is actually right on the Capricorn tropic. If you draw a line that would be like 500k north of Brisbane. It's very tropical, it's very, very warm. It got the biggest lagoon in the world. Piotrek Bodera (08:13) Because Gigi (08:13) Biggest lagoon in the world, yeah yeah. Basically I got the island and it's surrounded by coral reef all around it. Okay, not closed, obviously, because she couldn't come through, but it's like a big big coral reef all around it. you got like the main island. In French they call it Le Caillou. That means like the rock, because it's like that's all it is, it's like a piece of rock. And you got like three islands called the Loyalty Islands, Maré, Lifou, and Ouvéa. On the north you got the Belep Island, on the south you got the Pine Islands or Isle of Pines. You would expect coconut tree everywhere mm and it has got plenty, but there's also pines, loads and loads of pines. not Christmas tree pines, but like some sort of pines here. So yeah, it's I was very aware that those like living in paradise, you know, it's like very this all very chill and you know, like every Piotrek Bodera (09:10) There are actual forests too. Gigi (09:12) Yeah, there's yeah there's forest. It's quite similar to Australia in in in some way, it probably comes of Australia actually, you know, at some point. Piotrek Bodera (09:26) Would you like to regularly receive intriguing content like this? Subscribe to Nomad Tuesday. Every week you will get an email from me with fresh podcast episodes, practical tools, or fascinating travel destinations. Subscribe at nerdontur.net Gigi (09:45) Yeah, you got like sort of tropical jungles, you've got desert bush like the western coast of Australia if you've been there. very dry, very dry, you get yeah, yeah. It's very it's Piotrek Bodera (09:57) Not a Gigi (09:57) like Australia you got. now, no, but when monsoon season comes you got like loads of rain, thunderstorm Piotrek Bodera (10:06) For how long? Gigi (10:07) two to three months, I think. Yeah, yeah. And it's Piotrek Bodera (10:09) And then Gigi (10:10) sunny. And then it's sunny again. It's still very, very hot, but yeah, then it's sunny again. And it's very tribal. Very, very tribal. It's got like a very native culture. It's very present. In my personal opinion, it's very good. I always went along really well with the natives, the tribal, then very close to nature, fishing, like very like like a good sense of community in a good way, 'cause I'm quite an anti social character I'm afraid. But I it's Piotrek Bodera (10:44) You were a pirate, so Gigi (10:45) But I'm not a retired. Although like I've I've I could I could, Piotrek Bodera (10:49) We'll move to his part soon. Gigi (10:51) I could, yeah, yeah, I I save it for later then. yeah, no no, it's like I've always sort of like been drawn. I was drawn really like more than anything else. Always been drawn to that 'cause even like being a Pacific Islander, coming from them, like people would say I'm not a native and I'm not this and I'm not that and that's some the sort of bother me. 'Cause you're not from anywhere then. Yeah. Do you know what mean? Like it's like you're from there but you not belong to. So that's I think that's why that question like really bothered me 'cause I find I I need to justify myself in something. No, I don't really like boundary anyway. I disagree. I'm sorry. No, it's a very Piotrek Bodera (11:31) No no Gigi (11:33) it's like long story short, basically it's beautiful island, it's very like postal card really. White sand and Piotrek Bodera (11:41) Did you have a lot of exposure to all of those regions of the island, of the main island, and like going to other islands when you were growing up? Is it easy to go everywhere? Gigi (11:52) It's easy if well like when you're really young and so you have to go with your parents. Obviously. So if they don't wanna go or they just don't go, like that. My parents did a little bit, not quite often. I had the chance to have a sort of a wild temper. So I would just leave the Piotrek Bodera (12:12) Go along. Gigi (12:12) so I was just like not to the other island but like I would just like leave the house and each hike I used to so much. I used to hang out with the homeless people, sort of homeless people who come to the city, like the tribal people, they come to the city and they just like sleep on the grass in public park and stuff like that. Just smoke weed and drink wine and stuff like that. So I used to basically when I was like eleven or twelve, my best mate was like forty old last about and smoke weed and we used to like chest brief and wine at that which is like a quite common thing in UK, don't you know to do at twelve. Piotrek Bodera (12:50) Yeah. Gigi (12:51) Yeah, exactly. Yeah yeah. And yeah, yeah, so just ask his mate, got a pickup truck and I would just leave for like a week or two. There were no mobile phone or anything or no internet at the time, so I can imagine the my mother's state of mind. And it's quite cool 'cause I've like yeah, just like teach me how to fish or like how to I don't know like climb a coconut tree like to get like gathered coconut. And then like the older so to speak I got, I was drawn to like deeper things, sort of like teach me the culture and the tradition, mm, like all the spirit thing, like not really, but like a bit of medicine plant, a bit of this, a bit of that. Yeah, so I was like I've got like very I'm very, very fond of this memory, even though I've sort of leave it all behind and moved on. But I I feel very lucky now to have this experience. Yeah. Piotrek Bodera (13:51) Is there any danger in terms of wildlife? Because Australia is famous for like having so many snakes or you know spiders. So whatever stories are about Australia is that yeah, like so many people are scared of like what wildlife can do to you, even just by accident. But how it is on Gigi (14:13) It's nothing like Australia. Nothing at all. There's basically nothing on on land. Piotrek Bodera (14:18) Mm. Gigi (14:19) There's not even the British they introduced deer, stag, really, rabbits when they came, 'cause James Cook discovered discovered. Yeah, yeah, yeah. People can't see my hand discovered the island Piotrek Bodera (14:31) Yeah. Gigi (14:34) from a a very empire western point of view. Piotrek Bodera (14:38) Exactly. Exactly. Gigi (14:40) Historical should I say. And they call it like the noble game. Noble animal. Piotrek Bodera (14:47) Yeah, yeah yeah. Gigi (14:49) So yeah, like that's basically like the only wildlife you can find on the island on land. People live from the sea. So like the wildlife would be the sea life. It would be the crayfish and fish and all kind of fish, mahi mahi. Blue bone if you know your fish, if you know your fishes, Spanish mackerel, that sort of thing. Then well, yeah, whales, dolphins, shark, turtles, that sort of thing. Yeah, yeah. But on land, not really. Got a bird that doesn't fly, a small it's not a small, small bird, but it's like it's it's quite a big bird, like that doesn't fly, called the cagoo. Piotrek Bodera (15:29) Karo, Kagu, Kagu. Gigi (15:31) Kagu. It's like the national symbol. Yeah, Piotrek Bodera (15:34) Like QE for music. Gigi (15:36) exactly. Yeah, actually yeah. That's exactly what it is actually. Yeah. Yeah. It's not as big as a kiwi actually. So it's just way smaller. But that's yeah, that's it, basically. Piotrek Bodera (15:46) Is that the the only wild wild animal, local wild animal? Gigi (15:50) Don't have monkeys or elephant or anything. Piotrek Bodera (15:54) Yeah, you don't need it actually, yeah. For such a smile small island. Like your territory actually is on water, underwater, yeah. Like Gigi (16:02) Yeah, but mostly people live from the sea, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Piotrek Bodera (16:06) Okay, okay. So if you were so keen to be in this wilder part of the island and you know, have your mates that were like living on the like alternative way of living and just you know learning some practical skills, when was the moment that you pick up skateboarding? Which is something that you can only do in the city and it's like a bit different from like being outdoors, is it? Gigi (16:33) Okay, yeah, it is. Well I I would like not to correct you, that would be a bit pretentious, but like I don't see my mates, some of my mates having like a an alternative way of life. Yeah. That's just life. That's that's odd like that. Piotrek Bodera (16:48) Yeah, yeah. We we I'm talking in terms of like the mainstream is that you are having Gigi (16:54) I know I I was having not in it. okay, okay, okay. Sorry, sorry, sorry. My my bad. Piotrek Bodera (16:57) Yeah I don't get it. But not to diminish it, yeah, like anyone is choosing that, that's fine. Gigi (17:07) Skateboarding for me was I wouldn't say an escape, but when you're a child or a young kid, you're sort of like expect to do like some sort of sport or physical education. That had like a lot of energy, I just ADHD and all the good thing that comes with it. It's Piotrek Bodera (17:27) Yeah. Gigi (17:28) like shine, like the whole lot really. I wouldn't say nightmare 'cause I was like I was kind hearted, I think. I wasn't like a bad kid but it was just like lots of energy, very, very hard to focus. And for example something that would be like a dream for some people. My mother she always put us like me and my little sister to windsurf school. I hated windsurfing for some reason. 'Cause first there was a teacher and I had a massive, massive problem with authority. So even like Swimming or windsurfing or like c could have been like even like great stuff like scuba diving and stuff. As soon as there was a teacher like I was off. I'm not Piotrek Bodera (18:11) How can you learn without just falling? Gigi (18:13) That's that that's when skateboarding cop. Okay, skateboarding was an escape. my big brother never skateboarded, but he had a board on his end. It was like like a very heavy, very rubbish board, old school. I just got that and I'm there I just like start playing with it. And on your own. On my own, yeah, yeah. And just drop all the other activity. No, I've started like no how to ollie and that stuff that sort of stuff. But again there was no internet, no YouTube, there wasn't even magazine or DVDs or cassettes or video or anything. At the time there was like only one T V channel. Yeah. That speak only about local stuff. You know, about cattle station, cows, how to castrate boo and that sort of thing. It was ridiculous. Piotrek Bodera (19:05) Ha ha. Gigi (19:07) yeah, yeah. So like yeah, it was just like sort of like freedom for me. I d I d I I didn't really think about it really. It was just like, you know, I just pick up the board and like there's loads of like very, very steep streets in Nouméa in the capital where I was living. So and it was like a little skate park, but I didn't really go there. It was just like more like riding and I'm fine. It was like I think it's like sort of the prime spirit of skateboarding, even though I wasn't born in Los Angeles. Late late sixties. But like I sort of like unconsciously or subconsciously for me I sort of recreated myself in the yeah, in the movement. Yeah, in the movement. Yeah, yeah. And then there was like a few, not a lot, but there was a few people that that had there was one shop, one skate shop though. Piotrek Bodera (19:56) Like a proper Gigi (19:57) Like a proper one, I had like proper gear. Didn't have any magazine or cassette or data. No. Okay. But they had just little clothes and and loads of like different you know, brand of and from a young age we go along with the owner. Yeah, he sort of like it was an official we sort of sponsor me, he liked me, so he's like giving me stuff all the time. Clothes and boards and and I had like a little job after school. Just like set up boards for him. not inventory or something like I was like twelve or thirteen or something. But yeah, if like a kid comes with his mom and don't know what to do or to choose and is a bit shy, so just like, you know, go and like I I used to hang out in the shop all the time when I wasn't skateboarding. For me like there was like freedom. Freedom of like movement, freedom like to be out of school, house, anything. And just like and no teacher or anything. And just came quite easily actually to me. Yeah, yeah, so it's like it's a good thing skateboarding as well. Piotrek Bodera (21:05) I do share the feeling of having the flow from movement, yeah, because I tried to do skateboarding for a few years and I also had it from my older brother, the big one, the thick, you know, wheels and everything that Yeah, Gigi (21:21) I think they're really nice now. Piotrek Bodera (21:23) like now of course, like the whole retro movement, people would actually pay a lot of money, yeah, just to have one. But for some reason I never Got enough into it to spend enough time to learn any tricks. But I did spend enough time playing Tony Hawk, the video game. yeah there. Gigi (21:45) Only video game I've ever played. Piotrek Bodera (21:48) But I did g got into inline skating. And for me that's like a very kind of parallel you know sport also on wheels and also you can get this kind of like just a pure enjoyment. From like moving to the space. Gigi (22:05) fun isn't it that's just fun yeah that's why like when you ask me like how skateboarding come for me like it was just I didn't even think about it you know I mean it's just pure fun pure freedom pure fun you're out with your mate there's no one to teach there's no rules you just get on with it and like turns out that one day you can do a ollie and then you do a 360 it's like there like a few months later you just jump three flights of stairs. Piotrek Bodera (22:35) Yeah. Gigi (22:35) And you do break your bones and whatever, but you just want one it. I think most of the riding sports are like that, you know, surfing, windsurfing, kitesurfing and so forth and so on. Rollerblade, not the proper extreme one, like not the one on the ramp or stuff. I've done that for a bit as well. Not the one just, you know, riding like just gliding like that, but like any anything, you know, it's like even like those is just like it's movement. It's movement's enjoyable. I think dancer, people that enjoy dancing, yeah, might have the same feeling actually. Even though there's there's dancing. Piotrek Bodera (23:14) I I I do Gigi (23:15) You do dance. okay, there you go. Yeah, or what you do actually, or yoga or taichi or or you know like movement is a very when you become conscious of movement, like your body like in space, yeah, it's a very more than I think everybody can like relate somehow to sport. I think like I understand people that enjoy swimming. I got loads of cousins, they're like they're like big into sports. Like my little cousin, I think she's like 13, she's joining the European competition, swimming competition. Like I've got a mate, it's like paragliding, is that the word? Yeah, yeah, it's in European level as well. So like everyone can relate to a certain like it just happened to be for a certain chunk of my life. Skateboarding was really big. So I don't skate anymore for a long time. I've tried to take it back like a few years ago, but it happened to be rubbish. Just dropped it. Piotrek Bodera (24:16) But you were considering to go pro. Gigi (24:19) I could have liked if yeah, if if if if my parents would have allowed me to move to Australia instead of moving to France as all the family was doing. If I had d another sort of temper 'cause I just got like really angry and frustrated and turned to very angry so I just turned to alcohol instead and like got very, very frustrated with all that. Piotrek Bodera (24:47) This is an excellent segue to the next chapter because I remember when you were telling me your your life story, there was this moment when you got really excited with skateboarding and you were thinking because you at this stage you already visited Australia a couple of times. There was some exchange with the students and you you you you knew this. Gigi (25:10) Student exchange, cool exchange. Piotrek Bodera (25:12) A lot of Australians want to learn French language, which is the official language here in New Caledonia. Gigi (25:17) Yeah. New Zealand as well, yeah. And Piotrek Bodera (25:19) And you could go there and learn their language, English and just have some exchange. But there is this moment when you are sixteen and your family is moving to Paris, yeah, like to France. Gigi (25:34) Yeah. Piotrek Bodera (25:34) And after half a year you decided that it's completely not your thing and you are flying back from New-Caledonia. But then that was the start after some time to do sailing, yeah, to Gigi (25:47) Get some job. No, it comes it came later on. Very like much, much later on. Yeah. Not straight away. Piotrek Bodera (25:54) Yeah, yeah. But but could you go through this transition? Gigi (25:58) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But like a sailing came like much, much, much later. So we arrived in Paris and apologize for the French people that would listen to this. It's just like it was like for me it was awful, awful experience. it was only like six to seven months in seems years to me. It was like I'm a very emotional person, you see, it's like I'm better now but If I had like a bad experience, a bad emotion coming, it's very hard to manage it, to harness it. Yeah. Yeah. So if I was angry or sad, I would just like fall into absolute oblivion. There Piotrek Bodera (26:41) Yeah. Gigi (26:42) was very, very painful experience. Took me like funny enough, I flew back after six to seven months. But it took me years to recover. Years to recover. I fought like my experience, everybody was like rude and violent and mean and from where I come from where everybody was peaceful and chill and in tune with nature and the sun and the beach and peace and love and like every like the all the beauty of the world that comes with it is like horrendous to cope with and it was like my personality didn't match at all and my temple and everything. So I flew, yeah, I went back say bye to everybody. didn't cost me much actually 'cause I'm I was always very, very independent and good on my own. I don't miss anyone. I'm just very curious and you know, want to try everything, meet everybody, yeah, yeah, you know, swim every ocean, drinks every drinks, dance every dance. You know, just like you know, just like that. Yeah, so I went back, I found a little job selling Balinese art actually, from A friend from school. Piotrek Bodera (27:57) I think in New Caledonia. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Gigi (27:59) She introduced me to her father because I knew her from school, but like I didn't know her parents, so she introduced me to her father and her father was importing Balinese art in New Caledonia. So I was just selling it and like do a bit of inventory and stuff. It was all very casual, very, you know. Bit of selling, you know, with the Australian Japanese tourists, all that sort of thing. It's great. And so it's good practice for like speaking English and stuff and I was still very young, So I wasn't even seventeen, so we was quite good actually 'cause I s I used to like sleep at her parents' place for a bit, but I couldn't stay forever. So like at a very young age I had to just with my back sleeping on the beach, you know, just like have a swim, have a joint, have a meal. So as out all the time, you know, it was just like I've I've like from a very, very young age, yeah, just like no home, yeah. Like a wanderer actually. So I except like I didn't travel loads at the time, but it's just like I knew everyone. So I was always with my bag or leaving my back to someone and just walking and or going to back to the this tribe or this tribe or to like to my mate and all that. Yeah, it was like lots of fishing. lot of yeah laughing something it was a good time but I moved to Australia I moved to Australia and New Zealand and eventually Asia and just stayed in Asia, all around Asia. Piotrek Bodera (29:33) But this was still before you do sailing? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Gigi (29:37) Yeah yeah. That was through traveling everywhere in Australia, in New Zealand and in Asia. The usual really like, you know, Thailand and Vietnam and Cambodia and China everywhere. Piotrek Bodera (29:52) Because in terms of flying there is a of course airport in Caledonia, yeah, because like Gigi (30:00) Yeah, port man. Piotrek Bodera (30:02) a place where the planes can land and and fly off. But as residents, do you have like some special prices to fly for example to France or Belgium? No you you pay the same as Gigi (30:14) Not unfortunate it doesn't like it's I think like the proper word would be like it's a French colony. 'Cause it doesn't it's a French territory, it's not a French state. It's not like the French Caribbean or Mayotte in the Comores Island. Uhhuh. Near Rainion Island or Madagascar. It's not like that. Rainion Island is actually a French state as well. French Polynesia and New Caledonia they've they're French territory. The law is very different. You can't apply French law, not all of it. It's too remote from France. It got natives and native culture which you don't have in Caribbean, for example. Okay. People call themselves native, which is fine because you're born there. Yeah. But like you're not Arawak Indian. Do you Piotrek Bodera (31:04) Yeah. Gigi (31:05) know what I mean? Is it's not a native culture. Everybody comes from somewhere or Rainian Islands used to be like a very, very piratey Island during like the old golden age of the piracy and everything. So you got people from Madagascar and Gibraltar and England and this and that and so forth and so on. It's too tribal and too in the blood and in the bones to be able to apply the law in French law. So Piotrek Bodera (31:32) But you are still like as far as I checked, you don't want to have total independence. Yeah, because there were some referendums and Gigi (31:41) I su the thing is like I understand the question. I personally have think in term of New Caledonia as the place I grew up. I'm not part of it. Yeah. I'm not it's nothing offensive. I I would say like that it's not my home and it's not like my people and I haven't checked anything about it for years and years and years. More than twenty years really. I've tried and come back five years ago maybe. And I'll only say three weeks. And then I regret and came back a year after and stayed two weeks and that was a big no. It like it's changed a lot and it's just like a it's a nice childhood memory really. I never check the news, I I don't know what happened, maybe the major events or what have happened or like I don't know at all. It's memory. Piotrek Bodera (32:32) Okay, okay, let's then move to to sailing because that's a very fascinating topic. For me that has been a dream for a very long time and I grew up in a big city and always around me there was flat lands, not lot of you know, variety. That's probably one of the urges within me why I wanted to cross the mountains and cross the lands and do you know, w go really far away to be close to the water. to be close to this kind of lifestyle where you can swim at any time of the day or night if you really want and then you can hop on Gigi (33:10) Very nice. Piotrek Bodera (33:12) go further. So please tell me, how did you start? Gigi (33:17) How did I start? I started my first experience and we're gonna go back again. Mm my first experience with sailing is actually in New Caledonia 'cause it's it's an island so obviously like waters everywhere and where I was living it's on the coast. Like the main city or like the only city at the time is on the coast. And a lot of my friends lot of my friend were the family they were actually living on sale but for the weekends or for birthdays and stuff like that. We would all gather with the parents of my friend they would take us like to this island this island. They're just little motus as Polynesians call them. Just like big sandbank with beat of coconut trees and vegetation, that sort of thing. And just like have like hammock or tents and make like a little fire and then we stay at anchor. Parents would stay at anchor and we just like, you know, have fun and just smoke weed and stuff. But we didn't sail but I found myself on sailboat quite a lot quite a lot from a young age. My father, funny enough, was a sail instructor. Piotrek Bodera (34:33) Okay. Gigi (34:34) he tried to teach me but I was too much in that skateboard thing. So I didn't want to hear about it. Same as same as windsurfing or that sort of thing. The proper professional, should I say, selling its payance started in Phuket in Thailand. I was in a bar. I met a girl, told me like I should go I should go back actually a little bit. Like Yeah. I've been like I've been a wanderer, like proper wanderer, like not knowing what to do, where to go. I think I have like quite a philosophical mind. It's very very interesting. Yeah, it was it's very hard for me like to focus on a purpose. You know, I'm very interested in everything. So I I spend like a lot, a lot, a lot of time years actually just gazing at flowers and sun and the sea and the mountain and meditating and that sort of thing. Someone asked me, Well, if you had a job like a job, like a career or like just like a normal job, what would you want to do? And I thought about it but I never like give it much salt. And automatically it sort of came like, you know what, I like to work on boards, like sailboats or boats. I didn't imagine sailing. I imagined shipyard in my head. Like the the picture, the mental picture that come in my head was like more like with a mask and You know, like you know, sending yes, sending and painting and stuff. And I thought like this is it's quite cool, you know, like a skill. Yeah. It's probably like sort of an unconscious thing as well. Like to have a skill. Learn a trade or learn learn a a skill. I'll let school like at a really young age. You feel like you've got no Piotrek Bodera (36:29) No grip. Gigi (36:30) on three D dimensional life and that can be very roaring and confusing sometime. It's just like you can't spend your life dreaming, you know, you're in this life, so you need to you need to know how to do something. You can't Piotrek Bodera (36:46) Because we are in this shared realm called reality. That we have the material as they call it. Yeah, yeah. I'm pretty sure we have other shared realities, but we will move to this one in the next chapter. Yeah. Gigi (37:00) It's alone. Piotrek Bodera (37:02) Do you remember who asked you this question? Like it was some Gigi (37:06) I'm not I'm not sure. Like I remember not so long ago actually, but I'm not sure now. Piotrek Bodera (37:11) Okay, okay, okay. So you your answer was like Gigi (37:14) I'd like to work on both he was actually not on ships, not on big ships. Piotrek Bodera (37:18) Yeah yeah. Gigi (37:19) You obviously need to learn a lot. But at the same time it's freedom again and it's fun and that sort of thing. Piotrek Bodera (37:27) Yeah. Gigi (37:29) From the answer to the actual reality, like from the vision, the vision, yeah the mental Piotrek Bodera (37:34) Yeah. So what what happened? Like what was the Gigi (37:36) The thing was it was quite crazy actually. I was in a bar in Thailand with my mate and a girl appeared. She like I asked her what you do. now I work on yachts. I was like, wow, like I would like to work on boat actually, like what you do, and she just told me I like now all you need STCW. I was like, what's that? It's just like safety safety course basically. Then once you got that Everyone has to have it, even chefs in the kitchen. Basically you can apply for a job on board. So I just went in the north of Phuket in the school. I will not mention the name 'cause I don't it's quite a shit school and I don't want to give them publicity. So I done the course. it was fine. And but it was like in the marina. So going to the bar to the restaurant, I met like a lot of people. I had a chat with a guy who was quite late, like was quite drunk actually. Went back home on about like a week or two later. Got a phone call from my mate that a girl called him. This guy called a girl. Girl called my mate. My mate called me. Saying that guy, which it's very shifty and like all the you know, it's very like it's I actually quite like this part of the story because There's a person that is responsible for all this. Yeah. And I don't know her name or what she does and I've never met her to this day. I don't know who she is. And she's like the missing part of the puzzle. Do you know? It's like it's very Piotrek Bodera (39:15) She was the prime mover of of your career that Gigi (39:19) But it's it's very weird. And the other guy, there was that one other guy and I've actually met him and I've given like a lot of Piotrek Bodera (39:30) Thank you. Gigi (39:30) credit and buying beers and stuff. But the girl I've never met her anyway. So once I came back for like the it wasn't even an interview, it was just the guy just happy to see me again and I I was like hardly remembered him. But he said, yeah, do you wanna go to Hong Kong? I have a boat, brand new boat from Phuket. Yeah, yeah. Or well fly from Phuket. huh. Go to Hong Kong, pick up the boat in Hong Kong, bring it back to Phuket. So I was like quite yeah, amazed. I was like, What do you mean? You know, like sailing the whole time. So, yeah, everything's covered, you're not getting paid, just like Don't care. But you got food, flights covered, everything's covered. It's like, that's amazing. Yeah, let's go. That all started from this point, basically. There's the catalyst of like everything else. Went to Hong Kong, it was very interesting. Pick up a brand new Beneteau Oceanis forty five, which is quite a nice sailing yacht. Already it's quite big, there's loads space and now If it's your first joke you you're feeling quite lucky, especially if it's brand new, you know, it looks like a spaceship so white and when Piotrek Bodera (40:49) I can only imagine. Gigi (40:50) you sail and everything. So I was amazed at the time. And it was like sort of like if you stay in Hong Kong too long, you might not like it. If you stay just like in this particular condition, like two, three days just to prepare the boat and going go to the supermarket, do the provisioning and talk. It was very adventurous thing. Yeah. Even though like I've been wandering for like quite a bit, I was like still very pure happiness. Piotrek Bodera (41:18) I totally agree Hong Kong is is one of the very peculiar places where where so many things are mixed up. Yeah, because there is this very heavy, heavy base of Chinese culture and it's somehow kind of ordered by the British vision of the world. And this drive of like this Gigi (41:43) So Piotrek Bodera (41:48) should be the financial capital, yeah, and we'll make it. Yeah, we'll we'll just create a big port and then all of the other things happen and now it is such a massive you know thing. Yeah, all of the big brands, big companies, so much stuff is happening. So I totally understand why such a new brand new beautiful boat would be there. Yeah, because some private person probably just bought it and they want to move it. Or what was it part of some free? Gigi (42:17) No, actually it was like I think Beneteau company sent it in a container ship to intend the Hong Kong Yo Show actually. I'm not sure if it was like the brand new boat at the time or if it was just released, I'm not sure. But they send one it wasn't like no one has sailed it in like it and it didn't appear just by itself. Piotrek Bodera (42:40) Yeah yeah. Gigi (42:40) So I think like Beneteau Company shipped it to Hong Kong to intend that particular show. Piotrek Bodera (42:46) From Benetta's German. Gigi (42:48) French. French. French. We were supposed to sail it to Phuket to intend the Phuket boat show. Actually, that was the plan. For the Beneteau company, like to show the boat into the so that there was probably a new model Piotrek Bodera (43:02) Probably off yeah. Gigi (43:06) at the time. There was like very yeah, very nice keeper, very nice crew. very very interesting character as well so that just like you know spice things up and no one could say except the the ski except the skipper. Piotrek Bodera (43:21) That's why. Gigi (43:21) And I was the first on watch and the skipper showed me the the screen of the AIS and told me like all the triangle are boats. This triangle is our boat that's pressing buttons that's ten degree to port. Ten degree to starboard, one degree to port, one degree to starboard, don't touch the boat, don't touch the other boats. Wake me up. That was the best part. Wake me up if we see a b Piotrek Bodera (43:53) Big Gigi (43:54) flashing a big flashlight coming our way, like very fast. You wake me up, that might be pirates. Yeah yeah. Piotrek Bodera (44:02) Really? In this part of the world. Gigi (44:06) Yeah, very much so. Yeah. Like but in the China Sea. Somewhere in the China Sea. Piotrek Bodera (44:11) Okay. Gigi (44:12) And good night. So autopilot and then you're on watch and you you don't know lights or Piotrek Bodera (44:18) Shapes or sales or Gigi (44:21) Anything what's like you know, what's the main audio? Piotrek Bodera (44:24) It to be. Gigi (44:25) What's a rudder? Don't touch the steering wheel, it's an autopilot, what's a steering wheel? Piotrek Bodera (44:30) Yeah. Gigi (44:32) It was very much like that, you know like Piotrek Bodera (44:34) And you didn't have driving license, yeah, at the time. Gigi (44:37) No I got my driving license nine months ago or something. Yeah, ten months ago. Very recently. So the funny story is nightfalls, I'm on still on watch and obviously. Yeah. Piotrek Bodera (44:51) Pirates are coming. Gigi (44:54) pirates were not coming, but I saw a massive light on a reboat, rigid inflatable boat coming towards us very much towards us on all port beam. Okay. Very, very fast. Is it still very fast? I was Piotrek Bodera (45:11) Or or some. Gigi (45:13) like, is we we went far, but it's you couldn't see Uncle anymore. And that's like cough. And I I've I'm not the one to panic. I I don't mean to brag, but like I if you would have been power I would have been quite excited actually. It's like Piotrek Bodera (45:32) I don't know. Gigi (45:33) It's like I'm not the one to panic, so I've seen I've seen worse. Yeah. I was just like I was just like, like yeah, obviously it has to be on my watch, me the first, you know? It's like yeah, of course. The universe was just like yeah, just sharp. captain, like come and board, I think this pirate. This guy just jumped on deck. And even him, he thought like, all right, he said, All right, gather the flares and grab like socks and start putting tuna in your socks. Piotrek Bodera (46:08) Uh-huh. Gigi (46:09) It's gonna be a rumble. Piotrek Bodera (46:12) As a provisional weapons. Gigi (46:14) Yeah, yeah, and so he had like the parachute flare pointing toward them, it's like wait, wait, wait, Piotrek Bodera (46:19) White, white, white, white. Gigi (46:20) wait. Yeah, basically he was gonna like shoot them with the parachute flare and turns out when they came closing off they were just fishermen. Why fishermen? Piotrek Bodera (46:31) Are going directly to you. Gigi (46:33) Because they had like five kilometer or something nets, huh two, three, four, five kilometer nets. and if you go through them, you just break it and they can't catch any fish. So they got like two, three Zodiac and they make like light signal and then you stop the boat and they guide you where to go like where to go, like should you go one mile or or something round the net and that's just like a quick cheap thrill. That's still a good story. Sorry for your listeners, they're gonna be disappointed. No no fight. No fight today. Piotrek Bodera (47:09) this is exactly the direction that I was like aiming from the very beginning, yeah. Like because when I called you a pirate it is more for fun than for like actual, you know, whatever is the definition of a pirate, yeah. It's Gigi (47:23) It's thief on water. You learned that on the STCW course actually. Yeah. The guy said like the instructor asked us, I remember, what is the difference between a thief and a pirate? And I said, I don't know, I patch in wooden leg. Piotrek Bodera (47:39) And tattoos. Gigi (47:43) I thought that the like the eye patching wooden leggers is just saying, take legs. It's like that's you know it's fun. Yeah, yeah, probably. So alright, fair enough. So yeah, yeah, yeah. That was the first thing. First extreme. Yeah, yeah. Then Piotrek Bodera (48:00) Proper experience. But the later on the the delivery of the boat went smoothly. Gigi (48:06) Yeah, mostly yes, 'cause that was like ideal condition really. The wind came from we were on the dead run pretty much like all the way. We didn't have any spinnaker but like full Genoa, didn't raise the main sail once and like from Hong Kong, all the China-Sea down to Singapore. We were on like one bearing, no sail trimming at all. Nothing, yeah, just like autopilot. play card the whole way, watch the dolphins. Everybody was like trying to get sober, so didn't have any alcohol alcohol and wall, like it was sort of like a rehab boat. But it was not great actually. It was like they were a very peculiar character. So I learned a lot, especially from one of the the sailing guy. Well the skipper had like obviously like a lot of knowledge, sailing knowledge, and he made like round the world like five times or something. So a lot of word knowledge, lot of like smuggling and trading knowledge and like all that salty sailor thing. he was very much a seasoned sailor. So lots of information and stuff. And the other guy was a guy from England. He's like the incarnation of a hippie. Left home when he was like fourteen. It was the first time he I he actually like Being on the plane. The guy eats hike everywhere in the world. Thirty. Piotrek Bodera (49:34) How old was he at the time? Gigi (49:36) But it's been like in fifteen years, it's been like one hundred and twenty country. Yeah. Always each hike from China to London, from London to Turkey, from Turkey to Kazakhstan, Kazakhstan to Australia. Always on board and by foot, it's just this is incredible India for years. So I learned a lot from him as well. And yeah, and the Swedish guy, yeah, he was the chef but he was the only one that has been like seasick for like days and days, so he couldn't cook. So I had to cook. What was it Yeah it was the first time for everyone. Yeah Piotrek Bodera (50:13) For him the first time on everyone. Gigi (50:16) for everyone. No one knew nothing. She's right there, that was it was quite intense, like the skipper saying like all right, I'm going to bed, see ya and just my god, what are we gonna do? Piotrek Bodera (50:28) Are we going to survive or not? Gigi (50:31) Yeah, so the rest of the trip went quite smoothly. So it was quite a long time ago, so all I remember was not the four stair but like the the furling parts with the Genoa the headsail stand popped out. 'Cause it was brand new boat and on brand new boat everything's break all the time. So like the popped out and like the whole the whole sail furled. But like went like all over the place. This keeper was like so chill, it's ridiculous. There wasn't a screwdriver on board. It's like Piotrek Bodera (51:10) How can you fix it? Gigi (51:11) at some point I had like a fork and just smashed the fork with like a really pot or something. And like two two pieces of the fork, I think. I I just like put it like so hold so you just hold a little bit and just bend the fork. It's very weird. And then put like tape or like in a t shirt or in something. Yeah, Piotrek Bodera (51:32) Just to fix Gigi (51:33) just just so it wouldn't like pop out like a pin. Yeah. Yeah. But like it's like there's so it's ridiculous. Piotrek Bodera (51:40) And you didn't have like a spare Genoa spare pocket. Gigi (51:43) So like the say the sail was fine. It was just like that piece sort of like that must masty not even sure it's called it's ridiculous. that goes through the furling the furling drum. Yeah, yeah, just popped out and now just had to like put a pin in it. Could have like now I think about it, could have p put like the take the one from the fire extinguisher or something. Just like try and bring it. But you don't want really touch the fire extinguisher. Piotrek Bodera (52:12) Yeah. Gigi (52:13) Well it's ridiculous, there wasn't a toolbox, there's like it was so unprepared. Piotrek Bodera (52:18) pin from the fire ex extinguisher is also like really, you know, not reliable. Yeah. It's it's just a like a little bit of Gigi (52:25) And it's probably more reliable than a fork. Piotrek Bodera (52:29) Yeah, exactly. Maybe the fork was the right solution. But it worked eventually. Gigi (52:33) So but otherwise like it says stay stayed put for like the time being. Yeah, right. Long story short, we arrived in Phuket, there was like a very, very nice passage, took thirteen days. Piotrek Bodera (52:48) Mm-hmm. Gigi (52:50) Arrived, rinsed the boat, mowed a boat, rinsed the boat, went out, got drunk, came back, slept, and the next day, so there wasn't a responsibility anymore. Just for the sake of it, I should mention that no one except the chef has got seasick. Piotrek Bodera (53:10) Shake. Gigi (53:11) It was in rough weather anyway, but it was like quite big, unbreaking wave 'cause coming from downwind and probably going with the tide as well. So it was just like surfing the whole way, but no one got seasick. But when I went back to my bungalow, I was renting at the time in the north of Kuketney. my cow beach banin village for people who know what Piotrek Bodera (53:33) But the place. Gigi (53:34) I happened to be in my dream in my dream really extremely sissy and wake up and it was like pitch black because like the bungalow like middle of the field in the jungle basically so it's absolutely pitch black and I got trapped under my sheet and my bed sheets and the like the basically like the whole blackness in the bed and everything like but I couldn't see the bed 'cause it was really, really dark. So the whole blackness was moving. It was like the whole motion was completely so I just like fell out of bed and like I had to crawl on the on a moving floor to like to find the the light button. The light switch. That was like very intense. It was like sweating. That was that was extreme. And that's where that's the breaking point. That's where it all starts. The next day Went to the marina where I met the guy before, had breakfast and bumped onto him and one of his mates. His mates told me like like that guy told me my mate told me like you did well, like do you want a job? And so on the boat Piotrek Bodera (54:44) Who's like? Gigi (54:44) on the boat, like do you want a job? I was just like, Yeah, great, like let's do this. So I don't have a job for you, although I know someone go to this office Tell him I told you to come here to ask for a job. I went straight away, this guy didn't have a job and he said, although I know someone Piotrek Bodera (55:04) Yeah. Gigi (55:04) and the same story repeated itself. So it just like literally Piotrek Bodera (55:07) Cole, didn't you have any second thoughts that they are just screwing with Gigi (55:11) No, no, no. I'm just I'm I'm so innocent, really, weirdly enough. Now I don't mean sailing or anything, just the fact that like I've sort of been through like well, it's all relative, isn't it? I feel like I've been like through a lot. Maybe it's just emotion stuff, but loads of traveling, meeting like loads of people. and stuff like that. And bad and g what we would qualify as good or bad experience. Painful and joyful and everything. And I sort of keep my innocence. You know, like I don't expect the you know don't like I don't I I don't see like the bad in people. I don't expect to get caught or or to you know, I just like sort of glide through it all. No, no, I never like Piotrek Bodera (56:08) Yeah, it's Gigi (56:09) It doesn't doesn't well not like these guys are screwing with me or like no like every like it's all shit. Like everybody's a fucking corner, like no no no. It's like for me like I just I I love it all. I don't even think about it. Piotrek Bodera (56:23) You can point like and and like yeah, I heard this story from you before, but for our l listeners it's really fascinating, yeah, that you have this kind of like openness of your mind that yeah, like whatever goes goes. Yeah, and like just bring him to me and and I will adapt to whatever winds are blowing from whatever direction. Gigi (56:43) It's I'm very much like that. But on the spot, yeah, I don't think of any of it. And it's why now I will come back to that saving story like in a minute. It's just from what you were saying is like for an example, like at the present moment, you've done your desk keeper course. Tomorrow I will start my Coastal tools Skipper in here seven weeks. I've got like five weeks to go. To go to the Yachtmaster offshore. I'm everything but ready. The reason is that like not only I need to learn well how to sail, because like that will come later, but I've sailed a bit, but I'm not very good at sailing. So that's why I came to the school. Plus, all the theory, plus all this and all that. I need to focus and stop being completely. So no, you should call it like free spirited or like just like, you know, being like dead leaves, like just being blown by the wind, really. You need to have like a a purpose, like I actually achieving something. It's already Piotrek Bodera (57:53) Yeah. Gigi (57:53) it's already very, very cagey to me. It's very, it's very Piotrek Bodera (57:59) It's Gigi (58:01) You would think like learning thing and having the skill and being able to do this and this would be pleasant. It sort of is once you've done it all. The process for me it's like it's it's nothing like extremely painful. It's just a bit like it bothers me. It's very I have to live like in sort of like a town with people and stuff and it's just like And we're in Europe which is very like regulated and everything and I've tried to escape this all my life. So it's just like anyway. It's probably a very good thing. It's a milestone. Yeah. It is. It's a very it's very much a milestone for me because it's it's very weird that I've reached like seventy five years old. Hardly became an adult, you know, it's ridiculous. I Piotrek Bodera (58:50) Yeah. Gigi (58:50) feel like a big child and it's not very pleasant. It's good in mind but in in I'm not I'm not so much of a child really, but it's just like I manage to dodge taxes and responsibilities and rent and Piotrek Bodera (59:06) All the mainstream. Gigi (59:10) And so like I enjoy speaking with everyone. Yeah. And apparently people like speaking to me. And apparently, Piotrek Bodera (59:16) Yeah. Gigi (59:18) yeah, yeah, apparently they do, yeah, actually. But it's just like I sort of understand why, without bragging or anything. Just I sort of understand why, 'cause it's like people like they like probably have wonderful life and sometimes I wish I had their life. Sometime, you know, 'cause like when I panic want to greep into life. Yeah. But Yeah, so I've I don't have any burden, don't have any grip, don't have any attachment to anything. And yeah, yeah, so it can like there's good and bad in everything. Or Piotrek Bodera (59:47) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gigi (59:48) positive, negative, whatever we wanna call it. So yeah, yeah, it's it's a bit it's a bit anyway. Piotrek Bodera (59:54) But before we switch to the spiritual yeah, Gigi (59:56) Back to the Piotrek Bodera (59:58) I I just want to focus on this moment. Gigi (1:00:01) I digress for what? Piotrek Bodera (1:00:03) No, no, that's great. But I do this all the time and that's the way one of the things that I I think we have in common that we we like to touch a lot of topics and then like bundle them Gigi (1:00:14) But I'm I'm very much enjoying that conversation. Piotrek Bodera (1:00:26) But for the purpose of this recording. Please tell me of this moment when you started, you go through a few years of experience of working on boats, but not actually understanding how they are you know working. Then you you had this like very, very rough time northern part Gigi (1:00:54) and just Piotrek Bodera (1:00:54) of Australia, yeah, and this was the reason why you are here, yeah. Gigi (1:00:59) I will just like take it like all in one go. So that guy that wasn't the guy that didn't have a job called in front of me a captain. Very good captain actually at the end of it. called in front of me, said okay, like I got this guy, he's very willing. I just met him like three minutes ago. Not even do you have a job for it? The guy said, Yeah, just bring it on. He needs to go to the next marina, which was our Po Marina. We just have a quick interview, whatever, and we'll see what's going on. He give the captain my number, five minutes later the captain give me a call, say like, all right, before you come to the marina, I want to know this, this, this. What's your name? Where are you from? Are you fit enough? Like how much do you wait? And that's it, 'cause that matter. Yeah. You wouldn't think that matter, but that actually matter. Yeah. And this and this, like just to check personally, like, well, like, you know, like If you're rude on the phone or if you had a trick or whatever, yeah, yeah. 'Cause that matters as well, 'cause that turns out to be like a very big boat actually. And yeah, anyway. So after that went to the interview, had no clue what to Piotrek Bodera (1:02:04) Where how to Gigi (1:02:05) act like for an interview. So like the guy's like I I had a boat short and board short with flowers on it. Piotrek Bodera (1:02:11) You were in the Gigi (1:02:15) That like you know, yeah but he's a s I didn't know that, but he he's a s well, I knew that I was in Thailand, that's not what I meant. I I very much knew where I was. Piotrek Bodera (1:02:23) Yeah, but now you're stepping into this official kind of like internet. Gigi (1:02:27) And like I didn't know the boat or the captain, it turns out like he was a super yode captain and I was like an actual super yacht and I was like there's some standout going on in this industry. Yeah. It wasn't tacky or anything, it was a nice boat short, but like yeah, like a t shirt of I was in shape, I had like sort of long hair, ordered beer. I was on my one, I ordered beer. So the guy came, I had a beer in my hand, not like sparkling water with my legs crossed or something. There's so the guy was actually like sort of pleasantly surprised 'cause he was like a bit of Piotrek Bodera (1:03:00) Yeah. Gigi (1:03:02) tall, handsome fit guy. Yeah. But turns out like he he got like Scottywike pess Piotrek Bodera (1:03:08) How do you Gigi (1:03:09) he was a pirate himself actually. He was like very much like a he was a a gay Pardon my French, but he was a weird fucker. And Piotrek Bodera (1:03:16) Okay. Gigi (1:03:17) like it's just like he was a wolf, these guys in Santa Claus really, like he he was so anyway, so the interview went like this and I'm just gonna hurry up. Onto the next level step. Interview goes. Alright, what have you done? Alright, like I just done this passage with this guy. I'm gonna be honest with you, I know nothing about sailing. I don't know how to sail. Guys just like with a shelter like that, don't matter. So I call the reference. if people want to go into sailing, reference are very, very important. That's the key. So they can call the skipper. So I had my C V resume done. With that you that skipper was my first reference. Yeah. Call the skipper in front of me because he's great. Doesn't matter if he does not say like he's very willing or whatever. Yeah. And hang on the phone, the captain look at me, so you see, as simple as that. You're on board, mate. Love it. Now here's money for your birth ticket. You're gonna move from Phuket to Pattaya, around the city. Piotrek Bodera (1:04:18) If but if Gigi (1:04:19) If you got the chance not to go, don't go. Piotrek Bodera (1:04:22) Huh. Gigi (1:04:23) She can seize the opportunity to never see, don't. So yeah the boat was in Pattaya Royal Marina. the guys like alright basically it's like on the Super yacht pontoon, it's the biggest mast in the marina, can't miss it. It's like big, big catamarans like 27 meter, full teak, very, very fancy. Piotrek Bodera (1:04:49) How many people are working on on the T Gigi (1:04:50) It's just me. Just me. The captain and me. Piotrek Bodera (1:04:55) Okay. Gigi (1:04:55) Yeah. So there's no char there's no charter, it's just straight out of the shipyard. It's a local shipyard, Serenity Shipyard. Okay. So shipyard run by a Frenchman in created and run by a Frenchman in Pattaya almost exclusively for himself. Build Piotrek Bodera (1:05:12) Okay. Gigi (1:05:13) boat for his company. Yeah. Piotrek Bodera (1:05:15) Yeah. Gigi (1:05:16) Motor catamaran for the Chinese charter industry. Yeah. But you did that catamaran for a a f fella from Hawaii who's an American owner. So basically like I just draw yes it all right, you arrive on the boat, keys in the fridge, behind the beers and the Coca Cola and stuff like that. Keys in the the Piotrek Bodera (1:05:36) He's for what? Gigi (1:05:37) keys for the to enter the boat. Piotrek Bodera (1:05:40) okay, so the fridge was where you went? Gigi (1:05:42) Yeah, the fridge. yeah yeah. It's big. It's a very big superhole. So you the cockpit, well the steering wheel and the AIS and screen on the two health. And you got a saloon. Yeah. Big sun saloon. And then the the sliding doors and then the big saloon and then cabins and everything. But you got big, big space. Yeah. It's very, very fancy, but it's probably hard to picture, but it's very, very, very fancy. So you got like outside fridge, outside table. Big sofa, massive, massive sofa, almost three sixty degree. It was a big big boat, very Piotrek Bodera (1:06:15) What was the job for you there? Gigi (1:06:16) warm. Well soul decend. So about soul decend, steward, cook. so Piotrek Bodera (1:06:25) that's Gigi (1:06:25) I do everything. When I arrived, basically, Tommy keys in the fridge, in the locker, just explore the boat, check everything, all the cabin stuff, clean everything. all the cabin, all the interior. Yeah. And then all the exterior just rinse it and clean it and shame it and every day. No polish, no teak, no proper maintenance for now. Yeah. And I'll be there in ten days. So from being like an absolute hobo, Piotrek Bodera (1:06:55) Ha ha ha. Gigi (1:06:57) I just find myself like a very extremely at the time I thought it was and it still is, but like a fancy super yard just by myself. For ten days, but you were Piotrek Bodera (1:07:08) In to prepare the the boats, yeah for Gigi (1:07:11) Yeah, just like you know, like just rinse it, wash it and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. It was actually like I wouldn't say hard work, that'd be a bit much, thinking of all these these people in the factory in Jakarta. Piotrek Bodera (1:07:22) It's Gigi (1:07:23) It was a no it was very good job, very nice job. It was just like, you know, you're always in the sun, just rinsing the boat, like polishing stuff. But yeah, yeah, so like the captain then joined and no we didn't have much charter, we just like Maintain the boat, maintain the engines, two engines, polish the hull, polish the boat, scrub the hull, all the stain Piotrek Bodera (1:07:47) But it still sounds like you are having quite a lot of experience gaining of like w how to take care of the boat. But then did you start moving with this boat? Gigi (1:07:57) This boat, like the thing is, this is a funny anecdote, I'll make it quick with this boat, is like the owner apparently was this guy, American guy from Hawaii, and he had like three million dollars and he built a boat for himself for three million dollars. And he didn't have one penny left. Not one P, not one dollar. The guy like probably was like eating like noodles for a year. He couldn't pay my salary, he couldn't pay the captain's salary, he couldn't pay for spare parts. Piotrek Bodera (1:08:25) Was it custom made? Gigi (1:08:26) Couldn't pay for engine boats. Yeah. It was ridiculous. It was ridiculous. It was nothing, nothing, he had nothing. So the captain paid for my salary from his own pocket, putting like, you know, invoice and everything like for the boss. The guy eventually had to switch from his private boat to charter it. Yeah. And it's still for charter today, actually. Sell no sell share to his mate and turns out that he wasn't at the end of it six months later he wasn't even like the main shareholder. That was ridiculous. He had like thirty percent of the thing. You know? So that was like he was like a very bad business person. Yeah. Anyway, okay. So Yeah, Piotrek Bodera (1:09:13) But you got the experience on the very Gigi (1:09:15) yeah, I got the experience and it was it was all fun and I learned a lot. And at some point there's when the selling We had to deliver the boat from Pattaya to Phuket again. So again, like all the way down Gulf of Thailand to Singapore, all the way up to Phuket again. So it was like there's loads of problem. Engine problem. I had to stop in Dodgy Island in Malaysia, then Lankawi, then Phuket, and it was like all like there's loads of fishing nets as well in in Asia. You can't see them. So loads of fishing net caught in a propeller, so you tie a rope around your waist, you go diving at night with a knife, hold your breast, free diving, cutting all that from the propeller, three in the morning, at night with Rob C and you remember it's your job. It's actually people like in office in factory. And it's just like my not that I've d had this experience, but remember that's your job. That's quite a good life. For sure. It's good. You know, it's good. It's like it's intense. And loads of rain and reefing going to the main, you know? Going to the main. So it was a big big boat, remember? So you got the fly bridge, go on flybridge. And yeah, Oz the mainsail, reef the main sail, anything. That was good, really good experience. And skipping to that part that interests us. so yeah basically said like I will not work any job unless it's boat related. Uhhuh 'cause Yeah. I have a lot of tattoos. It's very hard to join the super industry all together if you got tattoos. Piotrek Bodera (1:10:54) Big visible tattoos. Visible tattoos. If Gigi (1:10:57) Possible, almost. Yeah. Piotrek Bodera (1:10:59) you have a small one somewhere they are always Gigi (1:11:01) Almost impossible to be honest, yeah. And well and I got both arms and fingers, it's yeah, it's a lot. So I still manage here and there in Australia and France to get some experience. I've rent in dinghies. I used to rent and skipper. Don't know how they let me skipper that, but like motorboats in Australia don't know Didn't know my port side from my starboard, like I don't know don't know what a preferred channel is. It was ridiculous. But like I knew how to anchor. I had my powerboat license, RYA powerboat license for okay from the start. So just for DE and D Thailand. Yeah. Piotrek Bodera (1:11:44) Did you do it in Australia? Okay. Gigi (1:11:48) Spent like years and years in Thailand actually. So bit all over, but then when it becomes boat Piotrek Bodera (1:11:52) So why did you do the power boats but not sailing boats? The Gigi (1:11:57) No, the PowerBoot license it's basically only it's a fancy name for dinghy or tender license. Okay. Just to know how to anchor. Piotrek Bodera (1:12:07) Do you spend a week learning it or is like a Gigi (1:12:09) Forty forty eight hours. Forty eight hours. Forty eight hours. So get like Piotrek Bodera (1:12:13) Like driving license for boats, for motor boats. Yeah. Gigi (1:12:16) You got like an MOB, you do MOB Piotrek Bodera (1:12:18) We Gigi (1:12:19) and parking alongside on the dock for the day. And then you got like a little bit of tide Siri, a little bit of that, a little bit of that. Yeah. It's not much but it's it's not complicated to drive a tender, you it's just like drive the bus to the beach and stuff like that. And it's very useful to have in Super Earth as they can. It's almost mandatory. So add that and from that I joined that company in Melbourne. That was renting like big actual motorboats. So from what the little knowledge I had, I managed, I Googled, I had like young and very keen to teach colleagues as well. So they taught me a lot. So I could like park a stern at night like a with a twin engine without touching the steering wheel, like a seventeen meter. between two boats, so it's like it become like quite useful. The fishing charter as well, done this, done that, loads of few sailing passage, big, big super yachts, sixty-three meters, seventy meters well. So I gathered like a lot of little knowledge here, there, like everything that I could, to the point that after like a long and tedious life story, I end up in finding myself in Perth again, South Western Australia. South of the western coast, I mean. And a little racing yacht, eleven meter probably. Not even, I'm not sure. Probably nine actually. Later nine actually. Very, very, very, very small. Piotrek Bodera (1:13:51) What this boat was doing there, like Gigi (1:13:58) It's just like the owner was using it to have like little regattas and race and and Yeah, Piotrek Bodera (1:14:02) I assume. Gigi (1:14:04) just in the bay. Yeah. Yeah, just for the like Australia style. For two hours and get drunk for the rest of the Piotrek Bodera (1:14:07) Okay. Gigi (1:14:11) His mate bought it, but he was living in Malaysia. Yeah. So they're nothing like offshore sailors, these people. So had to employ the crew. Not that I am. Or I was. Piotrek Bodera (1:14:23) Yeah. Gigi (1:14:24) But like the the the the skipper really was. Like just proper, proper sailor. I employed. We had in one engineer, another Australian guy, myself. And so yeah, went along the west coast to the north to Bali. land to Malaysia. It's a very, very tedious journey and like you were saying, about halfway just before X-Mouth on the west coast of Australia, a big big storm hit us. couldn't have predicted. The wind was upwind, very, very much upwind. Piotrek Bodera (1:15:00) Remember the force? Gigi (1:15:02) What was it? It's force nine. Nine ten. Yeah, it's like fifty fifty knots upwind. So you got like six meter waves, like breaking actual breaking wave, not the wave downwind you can surf. Two stories building waves like smashing you, no bimini, no spray hood, no anything. Everything was soaking wet. Two iPads, loads of leaks. Piotrek Bodera (1:15:30) make a point we are talking about the Beaufort scale which is from one to twelve one to ten Gigi (1:15:37) One to ten? One to ten, I think yeah. Piotrek Bodera (1:15:40) okay. But the thing is that if you have a force nine or ten exactly Gigi (1:15:45) It's extremely bad. Then it's hurricane. It's a hurricane. It's probably not probably not. Yeah, yeah, it's survival condition. Yeah. It is survival condition. So we had the life raft on the deck. We could very much trip prepared. Piotrek Bodera (1:16:01) Hurts D. Gigi (1:16:02) We could very much have like been in the we were in the condition you prepare to abandon ship. You just wait as the teacher in the course and you probably know that. Life raft is last, last, last last, last Yeah, ten, fifteen, yeah, hundred last resort when like you're sinking. There's no thing you can do. You just send them A Day and off you go in the life raft. And Piotrek Bodera (1:16:27) But as long as you can hold. Gigi (1:16:29) as long as you can hold the boat. It Piotrek Bodera (1:16:30) Because both designed to stay on the Gigi (1:16:34) got more buoyancy, it's got more everything, more shelter, more energy Piotrek Bodera (1:16:38) Yeah. Gigi (1:16:38) and better motion. It must be horrendous to be in a life raft, especially in this condition. It's like a very yeah, it wasn't ten, 'cause I think ten is like hurricane. It wasn't like Katrina or anything. It just like a very, very, very big horrendous storm, like the kind of storm you got at the end of point break or something. You know. Like it wasn't like a fifty meter storm, like the fifty years storm, but it was like a big, big storm. Yeah. No GPS. Where were you still yeah, me I was, yeah, yeah. 'Cause I don't like But I'm a bit of a child, you know, I just I don't I don't really realise what's it's gonna I don't mind dying, you know. No very much like I'm easy going like that, you know, it's like I'm I'm gonna make like a not a break, but you know Carl Barton. He's like an Australian comedian. He's like, you know Australia and Ozzy that don't give a shit about stuff. A volcano could burst in the middle of Queen Street, yeah and everybody would like that's a hot Piotrek Bodera (1:17:41) Let's go. Gigi (1:17:44) Yeah, you know. I'm not saying but I'm a bit like that, you know, it's just like Piotrek Bodera (1:17:51) okay, so you have this Gigi (1:17:52) I'll do Piotrek Bodera (1:17:53) in mind so you are remaining calm, but at the same time there are s real survival Gigi (1:17:57) Yeah on the on on the next topic that you told me you want to cover, we probably gonna talk about this, like my mindset about life and death. I'm I'm let's back to the back to the story. Was life draft on the deck, very, very messy, everybody's extremely wet, no one's wearing a harness, funny enough. Piotrek Bodera (1:18:19) You mean the satellites? Gigi (1:18:21) Safety line, no safety lines. Why? I'm not sure we had any used actually, yeah. It was like very crazy. It was crazy. It's crazy. It was extru the thing I remember was like it was extremely cold. It was cold, man. Cold, cold, cold. Everybody was blue. Because that wind wind and water and even if it's warm warm weather, yeah, once you soaking wet. Yeah. For more than like five, six hours like you're gonna be cold. But it was like very much cold weather. Cold weather, cold wind, cold latitude, everything's cold. I can't cope with how long. Piotrek Bodera (1:19:01) Do you know like how long were you fighting for life? Maybe? Thirty seven hours. No Gigi (1:19:04) Thirty seven hours. Not completely, but like from the like from the beginning to the end. Not two days completely, but something like that. Yeah. 37, 35, 34, yeah. Something like that. And we finally arrived at safe heaven. Not quite just yet. Piotrek Bodera (1:19:27) That's the name of the Gigi (1:19:29) No, safe haven is like a nautical term for like when you plan a passage, you obligate it by law. If shit hit the path, you need to have like a plan B. That's plan B. Piotrek Bodera (1:19:41) So what was you start from Perth and what was the Gigi (1:19:46) start no start from person, we were like almost in Exmouth, which is halfway on the west coast. Beautiful place actually. 30 hours, 35 hours of like complete struggling and arrive at Exmouth Port, which is like a little fishing port mostly. Arrived with 40 centimeter waterline, I think. Piotrek Bodera (1:20:12) Inside the boat. You mean inside the boat? Gigi (1:20:15) No no, like above the water level. Yeah. We had like forty centimetre. Because there was too much water in the boat. So it was like it was just about to go down, just about to sink. I don't know, like mm not sure, like a meter fifty, two meter. Okay, maybe this is just like very nothing was dry. My my phone, his phone, his all the blankets, all the coats, all the beds, all the mattress, blankets, pillows, everybody's bag, everybody's iPads, everything all gone. All fucked fucked fuck fuck. Everything gone. Just like floating bottle of water and that's it. And maybe inside the fridge, because it was a bit on a higher level, you can grab like apples or pears and just rinse them and stuff, but like everything was like completely smashed and like disgusting. And yeah, it was crazy. So first thing, tie the boat, dock, take the mooring line, tie the boat, everybody naked. Don't care, bird shit all over the pontoon, nobody cares. Plain naked. Yeah. Get the sun, get rid of the like the clothes like that. Then we add like a wet towel to not expose ourselves because there's still like families around. And bucket, get the boat out of the buildings. So it rise again, adjust the lines, and then like basically like put everything on the dock to dry, go for beers. Lots lots lots of bees like just like yeah. Everybody blue like honestly like blue skin and pink lips. Everybody was like that. Everyone. And pack shits from the boat, like more bit more cleaning, get all the mushy food every corner, clean the boat, get all the mattress, tie them on the dock so they can dry, bugger off from the boat, rent so called first mates, just disappeared and never see him again. so there was me, the skipper and the engineer rent a backpacker and Lou hotel next mouth. It's probably the only building in town. There's a pub, a backpacker, a supermarket and that's it. Yeah yeah and like a cross big crossroad with the desert and that's it. So the Piotrek Bodera (1:22:46) The people there are living on the boats or or like outside of the town? Gigi (1:22:51) It's just like a it's not even a town, it's like a main point on the map of Australia. But it's not a town because like houses and ranches and cattle station are scattered. You Piotrek Bodera (1:23:01) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gigi (1:23:01) know, like they're not like it's not a town, it's not a city, like they're just less than a hundred kilometers from your neighbor, it's basically like it's probably your best mate. Like it's just a very it's a big, big area. It's all desert. So you got like two streets. And the pub in the supermarket and that sort of thing and a little harbour. Met the fishermen actually like big big troller and they said like, we've seen you at sea. We were this close to send a Mayday for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so it was like May Day, it's not something you But you don't say that did you no notice at some point? No no no. No we didn't no no. Piotrek Bodera (1:23:40) I still in control of the boat, yeah. Gigi (1:23:42) Yeah, yeah, especially and when we arrived we we couldn't I forgot that part. We couldn't go in the arbor because it was low tide because of a drought. So we had like we had to like make circles in that horrible weather. But at least we can see close Piotrek Bodera (1:23:59) Yeah, you are Gigi (1:24:00) we can see the marina for four hours I think. So four hours wind very cold but you can't know. You you shall not have food and drinks just yet. Not yet. Just like turn and turn and turn like circle for four hours. Yeah, and turns out that sort of wind it went on and on for a week. So this keeper, you know, with the owner's bank card just paid for this, pay for food and just like spend a nice week dry. Piotrek Bodera (1:24:32) But then eventually you deliver the boat, yeah? Gigi (1:24:34) Yeah then it was like from from this it was it was all good was thirteen more days to Bali and then probably two more weeks to Kuala Lumpur. Yeah. Maybe not two more weeks, maybe ten more days. So like thirteen days, yeah, another month basically. Piotrek Bodera (1:24:52) But this very experience made realize that you should finally get some knowledge, yeah, some proper ex like training and Gigi (1:25:03) Yeah, 'cause I sort of Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. 'Cause I I sort of like take it as it comes. Not that I care too much about myself but it's like you can't put other people lives in danger. Yeah. No, have to be realistic a little bit some time. And with the wind and the storm and the waves you can't hear a thing. You can't hear nothing. So you have to know what's happening. Yeah. When to re what the Piotrek Bodera (1:25:32) React. Gigi (1:25:33) And react and everything, yeah. And I didn't. I didn't. I just I had very, very basic knowledge. At that point I was quite confident on motor yacht and like little coastal and bear shutter and stuff like that. And sailing the settings Piotrek Bodera (1:25:48) But there was a difference between the Gigi (1:25:52) are very big different and even if you drop the sail we're like fifty, eighty miles offshore if the skipper goes overboard. As it almost did, actually. Piotrek Bodera (1:26:05) Because you didn't have the safety lines. Gigi (1:26:08) Yeah, it didn't have the safety line, like you your foot get tangled in the wrong rope, yeah, the wrong line, boom you go over there, you just like try to dodge it, p almost go overboard. At some point you're like, No, you know, it's just like a personal choice. And and you don't feel good about yourself anyway, you know, 'cause you're like you just you're just rubbish. How long have you been working the boat? Well seven years, eight years, what do you mean? It's just you know, it's just so Yachting is a very yachting career, which is not really my thing, is different choice but knowing how to sail for like a personal life choice. And say, All right, I'm gonna go to school, start from the beginning and do the yacht master offshore. And yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So like we said from the start, five more weeks now. And yeah, probably gonna need not five more but like two or three more, I think. Piotrek Bodera (1:27:03) Just to like yeah, a accommodate with the the theory knowledge. Gigi (1:27:07) Very, very intense. And the practice actually terrorists were really Piotrek Bodera (1:27:11) Easy part. Okay. Okay. You also feel like Gigi (1:27:15) More there's a thing there's a lot of things to com to understand, comprehend, but there's a lot of things to memorize. I can memorize the thing but like there's the weather. I think the weather might be the tricky part of the theory. It's very etheric, is it? You know, it's just like you can't touch it, you know, like you need to understand the physics of it. It's very Piotrek Bodera (1:27:33) Especially that they are far away, far away sometimes, yeah, like the clouds and weather phenomena, yeah, like they are far away, and the only way to understand them if let's say we are doing this traditional way without the weather forecast on your app, yeah, in your phone, you're doing this the way that all the sailors did it in the past, yeah. You have the barometer, you have the knowledge of the region where you are, about the climate, yeah, about a particular part of the world. And then you need to kind of combine what you see of where the wind is coming from, what kind of clouds do you see, if there is a land nearby or not. And all of these little facts are combined and then you actually can somehow predict okay, in the next forty eight hours, this is the most probable outcome of what is happening. Gigi (1:28:26) Exactly, yeah, yeah. It's like even if you when you learned it all and say you understand it all, then it's still a book. Yeah. And then it's real life. Yeah. And you need to know what that cloud means. Like you said, there's like this at land with that valley and during that time of the day you're gonna have like thermic wind. Yeah. And like plus like I don't even remember the the exact specific term. Like Piotrek Bodera (1:28:57) Yeah, but Gigi (1:28:58) got like wind that go like down the valley Piotrek Bodera (1:29:00) Yeah. Gigi (1:29:01) that's gonna like be like a big big ghost. So yeah, you have like a lot a lot, a lot, a lot of knowledge plus like plus you like engine and VHF and this and that to learn but it's good good good thing to it's worthy. That is worthy, you know, like once you know it all. 'Cause it's cool, you know. It's cool life, like a beat can be quite boring and like any score. Piotrek Bodera (1:29:28) Yeah, you are not doing this to buckle. Gigi (1:29:31) Not learning philosophy at Cambridge and though it can be quite boring. Piotrek Bodera (1:29:35) Sorry. Gigi (1:29:36) But I think like once you know it, where's your oyster? Basically you can buy boat or you can like jump from boat to boat to boat just to gain experience like I did in the past. But like feel much better at understanding and being able to trim the sail at night by yourself, like you know, or this or predict this or this. It's it's a good Good thing. I'm I'm quite happy with it so far. Yeah. Piotrek Bodera (1:30:02) Okay, man, our last chapter, which is the spirituality. Gigi (1:30:07) Did you know Indra? We're gonna talk about Indra. Indra. Indra is like Hindu, is like is it's an allegory. But it's like the king of the god. Yeah. It's supposed like he's a sun god. And it's like gave birth to the earth. It's like the universe is called as like Indra, Indra's net of jewels. So you imagine like a spider net with a dewdrop. Dew dew drop. Like little after the rain or the dew in the morning. It's like In that drop, there's the reflection of all the water drop. And in the reflection of our water drop, there's all the water drop and so on to infinity in each droplet. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like like basically it's in the Upanishad. It's like seven thousand years old, man. And they talk about string theory. Yeah, yeah. They do, it's exactly that what that is. It's that they talk about string theory, but it's just like what the fuck? It's just like you know, it's like holographic universe multidimensional Yeah, yeah, factor. Yeah the Mandelbrot Piotrek Bodera (1:31:09) Yeah, so mathematical kind of like image for coconut is a frame. Gigi (1:31:15) Everything's a fact. Coconut is a fact. It is. You got like coconut tree, and then it's got loads of coconut. Yeah. And the coconut falls. Yeah. And it's just got like bashed by the sea and the tide and the thing. But at some point start like germing. Yeah. It just like s sprout. Yeah. And at some point you get buried. And like you got like a coconut like that on the beach. And another one and another one. And this one probably Hundred percent probably. That's fractal. Piotrek Bodera (1:31:50) It's like Gigi (1:31:51) It's pure fractal that is, you know, it's just like so gain. Piotrek Bodera (1:31:57) And this is excellent introduction to your favorite topic, the screenshot. And to be honest, like I I think I owe you my view of it that and Gigi (1:32:11) I honestly Piotrek Bodera (1:32:12) I basically believe that what we are now creating, or what we are now trying to create with the web, in a sense of the internet and all of those minds connecting, and all of those people that have started with big university computers that took the whole room, and then we have the personal computers, and today we have smartphones, and tomorrow we'll have another whatever fancy device. Gigi (1:32:40) yeah. Piotrek Bodera (1:32:40) The point is that there's like more and more and more and more people connected and sharing whatever they want to share. Yeah. It's like is it the knowledge, is it a personal experience, is it just a conversation, like like a podcast? Gigi (1:32:53) It's all of it. I'm not sure there's a need to label it. I think like in my personal experience, it's all of it. And like when you said like at the beginning of the podcast, like alright, like skateboard, pirate, sort of thing. You said like, and actually, like, even if you ask my mother, she'll tell you, like, how would you define your son? And she said, he hates labeling. Labeling is my worst thing. Yeah. It's like When you separate what's the difference between human being as an organ like I say like as a living organism, like as a creature or whatever that is, and the rest of nature. Yeah 'cause you know you always talk about nature and like you feel like human beings they don't include themselves in nature. Is it like you separate? It's like who the fuck you think you are? It's just like you you you know, you build stuff and you imaginate thing, you think like everybody like everything else fucking rubbish. It's just like no man, it's just like you're part of it. Piotrek Bodera (1:33:49) Yeah. Gigi (1:33:49) It can't be separate, nothing separate. And the worst thing, like the worst thing, like what makes human human, it's language. Language is the main difference. Probably like evolution brain, like the fact that you create things. But I heard a story about a fox building a snorkel in order to drawn a tick that's sucking his blood, you know. I'll tell you that about later. But it's just like like no, but it's like it's like otter. Otter they take like rock to smash shell. Yeah. Simple or crows or but like they they use tools as well. So they re they clearly reflect. Piotrek Bodera (1:34:26) Yeah. Gigi (1:34:26) That's not like animal instinct, they like they think animal think they have emotion and yeah. So but Piotrek Bodera (1:34:29) And they also have their they know communication. Gigi (1:34:34) basically like language, but the labeling I'm not sure it's very healthy, you know, it's like labeling and when you not study well like encounter different culture, it's very very interesting. Like for example I know that in some Native American language I can't remember which people and tribe and stuff like that. It's probably a little fancy to call them tribe, actually, they're probably just people. I can't remember which one. But they don't have a word for wave for the in the ocean. It's like the ocean is waving. Piotrek Bodera (1:35:05) Yeah. Gigi (1:35:06) It's not a photograph. Why would you try to like give a name to a movement? You know, like it's just like it's a national Imagine an Italian person just like moving his arm, like it's like every And movement you're gonna make, like you're just like giving name to everything. It's terrible, terrible. 'Cause it just puts you like more and more and more into matter and this life, you know, and less and less in imagination and in mind. It's just like the ocean is waving as you're waving to that person on the dock. Yeah. You know, you're waving goodbye or hello or whatever. It's just you know what I mean? It's very I don't know. It's very for for me it's like it's ext 'cause I don't have like basic knowledge or anything, it's just I I have like my mind. Piotrek Bodera (1:35:53) This is the value of it, of your perspective. Yeah. I find it very refreshing not to be closed by a construct of I'm from this country and this religion and this upbringing and this and that and yeah that you you always need to have those labels because then you are meeting another person and they are like comparing the labels and they are they need to put you in the proper drawer exactly. Gigi (1:36:21) There might like the thing is like on a day to day basis it's fine. It's just like sometime you feel you know, if you encounter person like people and stuff like you might feel immature sometime. It's not them that make you feel like that's you. You know, so like for too long in a city or something. Yeah you feel like it like a teenager on weed really, like it's you know, like when you're like 14 or like 15 and you're high and you just like why government and like why we let them make law and why we put them in charge. And like your and like your parents or like maybe not but like parents or teachers and stuff, it's a bit like you need to grow up and stuff like that. It's like no, you know, and like probably you do, a lot of people do. At Piotrek Bodera (1:37:09) Yeah. But Gigi (1:37:11) some point it's like you were right. You go right, you know, you need to be playful in this world. You're not stop taking this seriously. I mean like I've sort of always been that out, but like quite recently as just daydreaming on my thought and stuff about that nationality and where you form and stuff. I I really thought and I it's my like absolute conviction today. It's like say you born in a country that's like a proper country, like not island, not like confusing thing, but like country like Poland or Italy or USA or anything. And it's like I think USA might be confusing as well actually because there's loads of cultures and stuff like that. But yeah, like Poland or Italy or France or UK or whatever and got like you know like strong personality of what you are, what you should be, how do you relate to history and stuff. What about if you happen to be like your baby came out of your mom, as you usually do before the you come out of beacon, that's for some years later. This is just like but for now it's like the old school. And what if you happen to be different? And that sounds like a very childish thing to say, but what if you happen to be different? What if you if you think differently, if you like, I don't care Piotrek Bodera (1:38:34) Care. Gigi (1:38:35) don't care. Not gonna die for like a piece of tissue, you put like fucking like piece of like cloth together. Call it a flag, as you need to label anything like a f like fucking yeah. Call it a flag and then the people ask you to die for it. Piotrek Bodera (1:38:50) Yeah. Gigi (1:38:54) Like imagine like even if you're like a completely like free spirit, I'm not talking like these new people 'cause they're you know, they've been like in Thailand, like and they're go and they're the go for and they call them After a week they and they call themselves free spirit and they wear like elephant pretty pink pants. I'm not talking about they probably had a nice time, it's right, it's all right, you know, it's all good. For Piotrek Bodera (1:39:16) Yeah, good spirits of the laws. Gigi (1:39:19) everybody, you know, like I haven't I I wish I could say I've been there, but I haven't. But it's the just now like boundless mind, you know, or like you have some bound, just a larger, wider, sort of broader broader mind. And you refuse it. You refuse, you reject like as my my friend I wanna say, Terence McKenna would say, it's like reject authority. More word for word, say reject authority. Authority is a lie and an abomination. Authority will lead you into ruin. It's not real. It's not. You know? And from a very young age I was blessed 'cause like I I can't cope with it. It's there's no chance you're gonna you're gonna make me what you'd like, you know? And I haven't encountered many bumps, I can just do what I wanna do. And what I wanna say is imagine like the planet. 'Cause people they say okay, the planet. Imagine the planet. Weird Piotrek Bodera (1:40:15) It's already Gigi (1:40:16) enough, do you know what I mean? This blue ball of floating space, you say, All right, that's the planet. And that's when label is wrong. So that not call you call it a planet, it's a planet. Planet, it's like planetes or whatever that is in Greek it means wanderer. Like literally mean that. You know, it's just like you don't know where they go. You don't know where they're what they're doing. You don't know what they are. Why they all all round? Why they're not squares? Like, you know, if it's everything so random when there's not not a square one or a triangle one or pyramid shaped one, you know, maybe we'll find some some of those exactly. It's like it's extremely weird. And it's like it's just like the truth. Nobody know nobody knows anything. You know, like you don't know. It's just like these people, they'll just like put themselves but it's probably like everybody's fault actually, is just anyway, like you you need to behave and do like that and like it doesn't take much thinking, it's not rocket science. Like what if I don't want to? You know? Every single piece of land is flagged and labelled and covered and owned as if you can own land, excuse me. It's just like you know like you own the fucking it's not real. It's not. It's fucking rubbish. It's demonic almost. No one I don't care about like all this like theory conspiracy like Isin pyramid. I don't want to hear about it. It's like Just with your mind it's just wrong. It's like it's no demonic or angelic or whatever. It's just wrong. It's just wrong to think that you can own the planet, can own land, can do this, can do that and that that the fact that like something is called this or that, like it's probably helpful to cope with life and everything. But it's just like what if I Yeah, you're just a baby and then you grow up and it's like no no, you're this citizen, you got a passport, you're like this and it's not It sounds very childish, but I don't think it's not. I think it's very mature actually. Yeah. But it's like it's not for our era. Maybe later, maybe not. I don't know. Maybe before actually. Probably before. hopefully later. It's like I wouldn't say painful, but sort of like yeah, I'm very very much struggling with that in my life. I feel like Piotrek Bodera (1:42:35) But at the same time you're you are finding ways to to go through life, yeah, to to find Gigi (1:42:41) yourself. I find a way cause I I think I find ways cause I don't think about it. Yeah. I don't think about well I think about that sometimes but on a day to day basis I don't think about it. Yeah. So it's just like I think that might be if I look back for a moment, I think that might be what people call the law of attraction. Because everybody's talking about that these days, like concentrating and attracting money. But I think that's what happened to me. I didn't try, but at the center of my very core is this like all I want's freedom. Yeah. And no no not not have to deal with that. And so as it's like my prime desire, by not thinking about the outcome and like whatever. I just happened to just like glide, you know. And I think that's that's what it is. I recently I think that I actually think that's what happened. I can't be sure, but recently I read the Piotrek Bodera (1:43:47) track record. You have a good track record. In a sense that I also believe that increasing freedom is the best thing that I can do in my life. Even though that I have been brought up in this like very labelled society and very labelled you know part of the world and everything that was always very rigid. I also had this feeling that what if I go the other way? Than most people. What if I question the authority? What if I when most people are focused on like, I want to be a lawyer, I want to be a doctor, I would be spending infinite amount of time on my computers or devices or whatever, because that was the thing that sparked my initial kind of interest and then transitioned into like traveling with those devices and playing with them in different settings in different places. And then I think that was the very next step where yoga was this huge important development for me to to finally take care of of my body in a in a proper sense to realize how much movement there is, how much freedom in a sense of like mobility, personal mobility. Gigi (1:45:04) It's discipline as well, yeah. It's very it's like and then like mind starts to to yeah, it's very much it's very much we talk about that mm in our previous encounters. Piotrek Bodera (1:45:17) Yeah, yeah. Gigi (1:45:20) but I don't know much honestly about well I don't know much. I s I've personally in my legal life and environment what you call called steady yoga from the the Yoga Sutra Patanjali Bhagavad Gita of well I've just brought it to my mother actually with the with Gandhi notes. Piotrek Bodera (1:45:48) Really? Yeah yeah, it's very bad. Gigi (1:45:51) Amazon. It's very, very nice, very, very nice book. It's like Gandhi's personal notes about or like thoughts and how he interpreted. It's free of interpretation. Yeah, yeah. Not that religious people want to do that, want to, you know, it's like that and done, you know. But it's not actually. This is like fractal, you're fractal of a mind, you know. Everybody got his and everything's infinite. Your mind's infinite, imagination's infinite. So like there's like million and billion and billion upon billion upon infinite time, infinity billion way of interpreting like a single thing. And Gandhi, she's like a major character, I want to say, like in the last few years actually, like in like all our recent history, I would say. And yeah, yeah, I found that for my mother and like she used to be very close minded religion. wise and she was actually like really really interested in it but anyway so like all the main yeah the yoga sutra bhagavad gita the Upanishad I want it to come by the Upanishad actually plus yeah it's like everything like sort of like related to yoga in a profound way I find it very as cliche as it sounds very very amazing door to consciousness. For I want to say for Westerners 'cause it's like for everyone, for ever anyone. But it's just for Western East, 'cause like it's a good thing technology, but like I think like with cities and societies I I will put myself as a Westernist like just for the sake of it, but it's just like it's like sort of like imprisoned trapped in matter that I think internet and computers and devices might actually be childish attempt to recreate mind in a 3D dimension. I think I don't watch a lot of YouTube and I don't read a lot of updates things. So probably I I I will sound ridiculous because like probably a million people have said that before me, but like that's original for me because I'm not aware of people saying that. But it's just like I think that's try to recreate a multi-dimensional thing. in that particular dimension because somewhere you know yeah somewhere we know we know we are aware we know subconsciously and consciously that something's going on and that we can interact with one another telepathically yeah yeah dimensionally on another level it's a starting point you know yeah yeah it's an amazing starting point actually but it's just like That's how you you just sit in the tube or in the bar and everybody's on their phone. They're probably talking on Facebook or WhatsApp and it's like having a million conversations, you know, like you know, like ten, three mate, like they're on the other side of the world. Yeah. How's it going with COVID? How's it going with that? With your life, with your wife, with your sick kid, with your mortgage, with your bankrupt, with your when you think about it, it's just it's it's mental. Mental. That's what I is, you know, it's like it all comes from the mind. And if you take it back to the source, it comes from someone's mind, you know. But when does someone's mind come from? And then you just back into the yeah, yeah, you back in the in the supposition and hypothesis and all that sort of thing, yeah. Piotrek Bodera (1:49:26) Okay. What would be the closing thoughts? We covered a lot of topics, a lot of super Gigi (1:49:35) Yes, it's so Piotrek Bodera (1:49:37) exciting to talk to you and to actually try to Gigi (1:49:39) Yeah. Piotrek Bodera (1:49:40) wrap it into this interview. But is there a a message that you would like to to send? Gigi (1:49:47) Yeah, maybe it will Piotrek Bodera (1:49:52) Will be the the part of Dickens that you read me before we started. Gigi (1:49:56) That's like yeah, that's just like something that resonates into me actually, but I like this two thing. I would quote try to quote Lao-Tzu, which is like one of my personal favourite. I find him the the simplest to understand and like very extremely powerful when he said be like water which I I I very much identify with be like water That feed the 10,000 things, where human disdain to dwell close to the tower. And I think that for me, like it talks not especially lonely, like being alone, not loneliness, like either it's in your mind or physically. It's like you need time alone to reflect. That's where original creation comes from. That's where as influence is a big thing these days, but like you need to For yourself to to be alone and together with yourself before you can influence anyone or try to influence you, you know, and it you will realize that it comes from somewhere, even though it comes from your mind and your imagination, and then you will think how what's imagination, and just become to be like, you know, and just gonna get lost on it. The other one would be completely different, would be Terence McKenna in one of his lectures. This part I know by heart. It's ridiculously clever. It's amazing. It's like the guy is absolutely like reading in my subconscious. And he said you need to reclaim your mind and get it out the end of the cultural engineers who want to turn you into a half-baked moron, consuming all this trash that has been manufactured out of the board of a dying world. like and the guy mine is just talking and raving like that. Didn't I no notes and I'm a very positive person, I think we and I don't say we a lot and I I'm very sorry for saying I am so much or I I Icause it's not it's not something I I like but everybody's I at the end of it. But I think we're getting better. Some people might think not because of Piotrek Bodera (1:52:23) Yeah. Gigi (1:52:25) don't know, dolphin slaughtery or or or like or wars and and hunger and stuff, but it's like if you try, try, try and focus and look on the positive side, you got a lot of people nothing happened like that. Yeah. Nothing. Yeah. And now it's again like nature doesn't hurry, yet everything is accomplished. It's not about you. yeah. It's about like there's a not saying about a plan or be like a cosmic plan on being born again and stuff, but it's like something's going on obviously. And it's just like these people, you know, they like everybody like learn a trade, a craft, a craft actually more than trade, leave their job nine to five, trying to find the meaning of life. In these past years, like on YouTube and internet, you can see what's going on, you know? Like People they don't like they dislike sometime like YouTube or Instagram or blah blah blah. It's like if there's a good side of it, there's gonna be a bad side of it. Yeah. It couldn't exist if there was an opposite. Yeah, you know what I mean? So exactly in the Western world, which is basically the whole planet anyway, these days, a lot of people they look for a meaning of life and they sort of find it because we got that internet and amazing people like to do podcasts, share, do videos. Just because so random looking watching a video on YouTube but it's actually like what happened? You know, these people introduced to this one and this one, this person and that finally the guy like like that guy, that woman, that child, 'cause there's loads of child like to the very Piotrek Bodera (1:54:05) Beginning, yeah, everything is a web. Gigi (1:54:07) Yeah, it's a web and finally what do we do in that 3D environment? Act. Got end. You got the mind. You gather data, information, intelligence, imagination, that's daydreaming, like you know, love, hate, depression, blah blah blah blah blah. And then you act. And these people that act and they just like create a YouTube channel, create a website, create a trade, open a shop, open a bar, open this, open that, open that, what that. That's just life. That's just love. So the message is love, man. Love you. Love other Just love Piotrek Bodera (1:54:41) I love it. Gigi (1:54:45) love love everybody. Just love everyone. Yeah. Love you. Piotrek Bodera (1:54:47) Excellent. Gigi (1:54:49) Love you all. Piotrek Bodera (1:54:51) Okay. Thank you very much. Gigi (1:54:53) Thanks, Mate. Thanks. That's been that's been a pleasure. It was great actually. It was very yeah, very pleasant. Very pleasant. Piotrek Bodera (1:55:02) Thank you very much for listening. The best way to support the Nerdon Tour Podcast is to subscribe, review and share it with friends. Go ahead and do it directly in your podcast app. For more digital nomad stories, follow me on social media and check my blog, where you can ask questions and comment on each episode. Most importantly, please subscribe to Nomad Tuesday. It's my weekly newsletter about all things digital nomad. Each Tuesday you will get an intriguing email from me with fascinating travel destinations, practical tools or fresh podcast episodes. Subscribe at nerdontor.net