Anne Kuppens – passionate community-driven founder of Nine Coliving in Tenerife

Please mind that this is an automated transcript from Hindenburg, the audio editor. There may be some errors, yet already it's useful to have it here.

Piotrek
Hello and welcome. I am Piotrek Bodera. This is now our turn to podcast. And today I am talking with Anne Kuppens, founder and owner of nine called Living in Tenerife. How are you? And.

Anne
It's really good. Thank you so much for having me

Piotrek
My pleasure. And just to be sure, your last name is spelled. Kuppens. Or Kuppens or.

Anne
Kuppens. Yeah.

Piotrek
Okay, so there is some accent. Okay. Okay. Again, I am proficient proficient in Dutch, and you are coming from the Netherlands. So today we will be diving into the topic of what is co-living and, uh, how to start one. But before we go there, I would like to know more about your traveling adventures. So, uh, South America and Central America, this was your main destination. Why?

Anne
Yes, I have always been drawn more to Central and South America than, for example, Asia. And one of the reason I wanted to go there when I was in my like early twenties was because I wanted to learn Spanish. So I looked up Spanish courses to to follow there. And then I actually met a guy in the Netherlands dancing salsa. And he was from Colombia and. We ended up dating for three years. He was my boyfriend for three years and we traveled to Colombia together. For six months. So, yeah, I actually went to Cuba first for six weeks to learn Spanish. Like an intensive course. And then I flew to Colombia, where I met him. Were there for about six months travelling, living, studying before we came back to the Netherlands. My passion for South and Central America was was even stronger.

Piotrek
So did start out even before? Have you been reading books about displays? Watching movies?

Anne
Actually, it probably started with my first boyfriend, so. Boyfriends and. First minute of the episode. Okay. My first boyfriend, who I met in high school. Was from a Caribbean island called Curacao. It's one of the Dutch islands. So he was born in the Netherlands, but his parents were from there and his whole family was from there. And he had a and aunt who were about to get married. There. And in the year that we met. So. We went there together and he was actually the one who gave me salsa lessons for my 18th birthday. Hers. I couldn't come to the wedding without knowing the basics of. And. Yeah,

Piotrek
The wedding was in the Netherlands.

Anne
No, it was over there. So we flew to Curacao and I spent three weeks there with him and his family. And I guess that's where me and my love for the culture and the the music and climate, of course, and the food and everything was born and put aside was not. I mean, it's it's different than ST or South America. It's really like Caribbean Island and they don't speak the same language. You don't speak Spanish, but something related a. But yeah, it's like the whole feeling there was was the feeling of South and Central America. Yeah.

Piotrek
Excellent. So. Kind of like a lobster here that you fall in love versus the guy that and with the culture and then you wanted to explore more. what was your of imagination before you you started traveling? Like, did you have some anticipation, it works? Or you wanted to dive in because it was fresh and new.

Anne
Yeah, it's funny, actually, because so when I went to go to school with him, this was when I was 17, 18, and I actually really didn't like going on holidays. So my whole youth, I always would miss home a lot. I always I had a horse and I always missed my horse too much and my friends. So I just really hard for my parents to take me on a holiday because I would never really like it. And the whole time there, I would really enjoy myself, but I would also really miss home. So I never thought travelling was something for me, actually. And then I went to university and at my university in year three, I think you were obligated to take a internship abroad. And I actually went to Tenerife. So I

Piotrek
Okay.

Anne
ended up here to do. I was studying animal husbandry. So basically business in an animal. In the realm of animals. Yeah. So I did an internship here in Tenerife for a will watch research company, basically. So we did research on boats that take tourists, but then we would do the research on their behaviour and my team.

Piotrek
They are. You mean the customers, the people or the animals?

Anne
On the on the animals. We did research. Yeah. And so if we would spot animals like whales or dolphins, it was my job with the other volunteers and students to, like, take notes of them and like drawings of where they were in their behavior and how long they stayed and what they the way they moved around. And if there were other boats around and all these things.

Piotrek
Mm.

Anne
And my thesis was on whether pleasure boats so not professional companies that you have here a lot but the pleasure boats, if they had a significant. Effect on the behaviour of whales mainly. And it turned out they actually did, because these people don't know exactly how to approach or how, you know. Whereas the professional companies, they know better. So yeah, that was my, my thesis. And that's why when my first time abroad forced my. For nine weeks. And that's when a shift. You know, happened and I decided to do my second, second internship abroad as well. I went to Australia and from then on, I just. Hooked to travelling and backpacking.

Piotrek
Excellent. Excellent. So it's an unusual story. People tend to or at least the ones that I that I know, they tend to read a lot about travelling and like romanticizing how how great it is to travel the whole world. So in your case, it was more kind of like, yeah, I'm fine at home

Anne
Came

Piotrek
and.

Anne
later. Yeah.

Piotrek
Came later. So was there anything a significant lesson that you learned from those experiences this traveling either to South America or to Australia, that you kind of realize, wow, that there is something for me there?

Anne
Yeah, for sure. I think the whole exploring new cultures, new new landscapes, nature was really big for me. And I think also just the communities that you meet while you're travelling. So my first internship here in January, we spent a lot of English.

Piotrek
Hmm. Hmm hmm.

Anne
And they were so nice and I was always really shy to speak English. And I was actually known at my high school and in my family to be like really bad at English.

Piotrek
Hmm. Hmm.

Anne
And the people there were so nice about my English and actually thought I was amazing because at least I knew another language. Whereas English people don't really. And a lot of the times, right? So I just like connecting with other cultures and with people that you travel with and then live with. And it was just so amazing to find that community.

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
I think that made me want to travel and just to explore new places and yeah. Beautiful landscapes in nature and things.

Piotrek
again, the language part is is very significant. I remember in some other interviews you you are telling that, yeah, this is the basic tool that you have to connect with, especially local people. Yeah. Because of course, when you are meeting other travellers, it's like having this very weak connection. And English is usually, uh, the only way to, uh, to do so in a small talk. But once you want to really do your research or spend some, um, a long time in a new destination, you, you really need to have it. You really need to understand it. And even if you're not confident about your abilities, it's. It's best to use them as often as possible. said that you had some struggles with English, but then you overcome them. How was the Spanish journey? Was the Cuban experience enough to to get it?

Anne
Well, the Spanish learning Spanish went a little different because that the ex-boyfriend I met. You met Danny, I think, as well. And he's an amazing guy. He lives now on the island, so he and. I met him while dancing, but he didn't speak English or Dutch, and my Spanish was very, very little. So we really met. Spending time together, but not talking so much in the beginning.

Piotrek
Just don't think.

Anne
Dancing a lot yet. And then when we started to really hang out, we did need to use translator. to have like, proper conversations. So yeah, I was very clear that someone had to learn another language. My dream was already to go. I actually. Already. Knew that I was taking half a year off because my job

Piotrek
Uh

Anne
was

Piotrek
huh.

Anne
ending. I was already planning to go to actually. Cuba and Costa Rica have to learn Spanish.

Piotrek
Mm.

Anne
I changed it to Costa Rica and Colombia to be with him, but like the whole plan was already set up. My time was already, you know, taking off. And so it just all fit in. I already wanted to really, like, learn Spanish, but then I learned mostly also because I was with him and he. The on air language. And when I moved to Colombia, his family and friends also didn't speak any Spanish, so I was forced so much. Same as in Tenerife when I was with only English people. That yeah, you learn more and they knew than you would in school. Or at least for me, I don't learn that well, just like behind a desk. It's way more practical. And also it doesn't matter if you mess up because you're you needed your living. Yeah, you're like living and people are trying to understand you. And that way you just get way more confident. To just try it fail, but just keep going instead of in school where you feel there's so much pressure to like, do it. Correct. And if you make a small mistake, like everyone sees it and. So my Spanish, I would say it's still like that. I in most of the time just winging it based. I've actually never after had done like a proper Spanish course. So my grammar mostly is not great that people understand me and I have the confidence to just talk. And I can. I mean, people understand me, of course, but. Yeah. Yeah. So.

Piotrek
Yeah. Yeah.

Anne
Again.

Piotrek
You managed to go and deal with the bureaucracy or like, set up a bank account.

Anne
Yeah, of course.

Piotrek
Other kind of

Anne
Yeah.

Piotrek
more serious stuff.

Anne
Yeah. So my Spanish is there. It's not flawless,

Piotrek
Mm

Anne
especially grammar wise,

Piotrek
hmm.

Anne
but I can. Definitely express myself enough for also those conversations.

Piotrek
Mm mm mm mm mm mm mm mm. So again the Cuba for six weeks, was it something like an intensive course that you paid and you had. Mm

Anne
Yeah. Yeah. I was living in Havana, and every day, five days a week, I would go to this lady's house in the middle of the city. And

Piotrek
hmm.

Anne
she was my teacher, and I just sit at her like, kitchen table for about 4 hours, and she would just

Piotrek
One.

Anne
talk to me. Yeah. And. I.

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
I still don't think it was the best way to teach at all, because she literally didn't stop talking for 4 hours and she would just have a bunch of white papers in front of her and just write and draw and write on them and just pass them on to me. And I would leave there after 4 hours being like, okay, what just happened? She never asked me to respond or repeat something, or she was just talking for 4 hours. But she was lovely. She was really kind and it was the local experience. She. In the middle of Havana talking to my teacher. And she would like.

Piotrek
So.

Anne
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yes, for sure. And she would walk around with me and yeah, so I got the local experience. Don't think I got the best class.

Piotrek
So after that, you move to Columbia.

Anne
Mm hmm.

Piotrek
And it's the first time you had a situation that you need to talk with the family of your ex-boyfriend. Was it easy like you already felt that, okay, I can create a sentence with like three words that they know.

Anne
It was very basic, but the good thing was that I was in Cuba for about five or six weeks and I didn't know. But their accent is really, really hard to understand. So they talk really fast and they mumble.

Piotrek
Mm hmm.

Anne
So for six weeks I was just like, I'm so bad at Spanish because I don't understand anything. And then I came to Colombia and all of a sudden I understood a lot actually, because Colombians talk very clear, very pronounced really well, and they they don't talk that fast.

Piotrek
Mm

Anne
And of course, everyone around me was trying to talk even slower or more clearly for me.

Piotrek
hmm.

Anne
And so actually, when I got to Colombia, I was like, oh, I'm not a vet at all. At least understand what people are saying. And so I had a yeah, I had a base there that I could at least, like have a small chitchat with like parents or family members of Danny. And just like, how are you? The weather's so nice, let's go eat or whatever. And then? Then. Have. I need to kind of like explain more properly. Just slowly and whatever what was really going on. And I probably missed a lot in the beginning as well. But over the course of six months it went really fast. So I.

Piotrek
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Anne
Yeah, it was fine. Yeah.

Piotrek
And he was also picking up some English words or Dutch words.

Anne
No, he was actually learning Dutch because he in order to get his Dutch passport, because we wanted to. A Netherlands.

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
A he he needed to pass like a Dutch language course as well. Language tests. It was really hard because since my Spanish was now going so well, it was really hard for us to switch to Dutch because he didn't know any Dutch. So it was kind of a struggle There. But yeah, he ended up passing. So he knows quite some Dutch now in. Yeah. So that that was really good. But yeah, it was not enough for us to. Speak or to have a conversation. So we always spoke in Spanish.

Piotrek
Okay. Okay. And now, after many years when you are meeting, you are still speaking Spanish

Anne
Yeah.

Piotrek
to each other.

Anne
Yeah, we must. Banish. Two weeks ago, my mom was here, so we went to visit him in the South. And then he does speak quite some Dutch as well. My mum and my mum doesn't speak Spanish, but she does speak English. But yeah, he, he speaks Dutch with her mostly and his cousin was there as well so we were also speaking English for him so. It's

Piotrek
Everything.

Anne
a big mix, but the two of us, we speak Spanish.

Piotrek
Mm hmm. Hmm. Mm hmm. Excellent. So

Anne
So.

Piotrek
in terms of those destinations. Yeah, because you you mentioned, uh, Cuba, Costa Rica, Colombia. Have you also travelled through

Anne
So.

Piotrek
other countries in South America?

Anne
Yeah. So the first time I just did. Cuban Columbia. But then a few years later, I traveled by myself. I started in Mexico and I took half a year to end up in Colombia again. But so I went through the whole of South Central America. I only skipped. Honduras there. So I did all the other Central American countries. And then I that I did by bus, just like very slowly. And a few years later, again during my remote year, which I'm sure we might

Piotrek
Yes.

Anne
talk about later as well. But I went to Argentina, Peru and Chile. And I'm a really, really big fan of the Dominican Republic, so I've been there twice as well. And that's yeah, it has my heart a little bit, so.

Piotrek
Mm hmm.

Anne
So in that area.

Piotrek
Mm

Anne
So I've seen quite a lot from that part of the world. Yeah.

Piotrek
Mm mm. And when you are traveling all along. Uh, your Spanish was good enough You had to get about.

Anne
Yeah, This was after my relationship with Danny. So we've been living together and, like, being together for three years, only speaking Spanish. But that. But that by that time, my Spanish was. Yeah, was really good. And sometimes I even wonder if it was better then than it is now after. Living for three years in Tenerife, but I speak so much English because of, you know, nine in the community.

Piotrek
But this is.

Anne
Sometimes wonder was my Spanish better then or not? But yeah. So when I moved.

Piotrek
Speak with us in Spanish only.

Anne
Yeah. Yeah.

Piotrek
The new rule at night.

Anne
Kelly speak more, but I mean, I do, of course, so. Yeah. But yeah, when I moved to when I did travel through Mexico and down all the way to Colombia, my Spanish was good enough to, like, live there. Yeah.

Piotrek
And in terms of. Organising the whole trip and feeling confident what to do, what not to do. I know that for guys traveling alone, that's like a no brainer. Yeah, like, just pack your backpack and.

Anne
Hmm.

Piotrek
But how do you view it from the perspective of a woman traveling alone in South America or Central America?

Anne
Yeah, I never felt really like that it was an issue or a problem. I was aware, of course, and I learned a lot in Colombia about like just little tricks and little ways to make sure that you're safe. It was really good. You know, I was like, I don't know, like, you take them with them and you use them in your next travels. Like a really small thing, for example, is that in Colombia, I always learned that if you go to an ATM to get money, you never take the same route back. You know, you go one way and you take another road back so that if someone.

People don't see you come back from that ATM. Basically, they little things like that. But other than that, I really stayed on the backpacker trail. So I say travelling alone. But that just meant I left home alone. But I was never alone there because there are so many people backpacking that same route I I had quite some travel buddies that are a part of the journey with me. end I don't feel like it was a problem being a woman. Especially in, you know, most of the countries out there. I don't think it was a problem.

Piotrek
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. So every time you are going for some day trip or something, you always had.

Anne
And I would usually be with people. I spent a few in Costa Rica. I spent some more time alone. But that's also quite a safe country. If you know, if you would be alone somewhere out of those countries, it's probably probably Costa Rica or Mexico maybe. And but no, most motivated trips. And I did. With people. Yeah.

Piotrek
Mm hmm. So is there any particular place besides, uh, Dominican Republic that you recommend? Or maybe within the Dominican Republic?

Anne
Yeah, definitely. so in the Dominican Republic, I went to the north coast of the island. Most people. When they book like a holiday, they go to the south. It's where you have Punta Cana, I think, with all the big resorts and stuff. But then the north side of the island, kind of like in Tenerife, is where you have amazing, beautiful nature jungle beaches. And there's this tiny town called Kapaa right there. Quite popular amongst travellers, but also expats or people that kind of get stuck there for a while for a year or two or three. And there's a lot of surf and kite surf. And now some more nomads as well. I think there's a co-working space that opened recently that wasn't there when I. Was there, but there was this really nice cafe that says they made How do you call those? Not crepes, but. Waffles was like this Waffle House. Amazing. And they. Had released her own wi fi. So there you saw all the nomads basically like sitting and having their calls and doing their work. was already happening a little bit. This was right before. the month before, kind of like COVID happened. So I was there in January

Piotrek
All.

Anne
of 2019. So I would really recommend. CAPRETTA And I think one of the my friends who I met there put it really well. It's one of the very few places in the world that we've been where the locals, the expats and the tourists. Work really well together.

Piotrek
Okay.

Anne
So you see everyone in a bar having fun together and. Feel like

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
there's too much of like Oh, but the locals. Oh but to expat. Oh, but those tourists, you know. What you usually have in other places that become quite

Piotrek
Mm.

Anne
populated or popular. So that was really special. And then in Costa Rica, I just have a. Soft spot for Montezuma. It is a really tiny town on the coast. With great surf. But it's also I don't know if you've been, but. Costa Rica. When you go to the coast, all the towns are just really long strips of roads. There's not really a center. Whereas Montezuma is the only one that I found there that has like a tiny center.

Piotrek
Okay.

Anne
Where just like a market and like a bar and whatever. So that's what I really, really loved about that place. And the surf was amazing. So. Yeah.

Piotrek
Okay. Definitely about those places will be put in the show notes of

Anne
Mm

Piotrek
this

Anne
hmm.

Piotrek
episode.

Anne
Yeah.

Piotrek
And let's move to the topic of the remote here that you mentioned.

Anne
Yeah.

Piotrek
This is special program designed for aspiring digital nomads or those that are already living this life, but they really want to have something organized. Yeah. So for one year you are signing up for this special thing that is trying to bridge typical travel agency with with a program for what you do every month. With people who are working remotely and want to see the world, but without thinking and organizing and planning, it's it's all their side. Why did you decide for signing up for such? I think.

Anne
Yeah. Because I wasn't super aware of. Digital nomadism and remote work at the time because I was always just travelling, coming back, trying to earn more money, travelling again, coming back, you know, the typical backpacker routine.

Piotrek
Yes.

Anne
And then I at some point just saw on Facebook this message of remote. Yea, yeah. Explaining that you could travel the world for a full year. I working remote. With a big community around you. And I just thought I that's me. I'm going to do that. I want to do that. So I had to ask my job at the time if I could work remote for a year, which was of course not something that was very out there yet. But I was very lucky and I. Got to do that. yeah, it was very much from right from the beginning when I saw that message on Facebook, I was like, That, I will do that.

Piotrek
Okay.

Anne
I

Piotrek
Okay.

Anne
am going. That is happening. Yeah. So I. Yeah.

Piotrek
So we are closing the loop from someone who was not really enjoying travelling to the person who just saw some advertisement on Facebook like, Oh, they want to join us. What was your job at a time?

Anne
I was an account manager for an I.T. company, so I was actually quite bound to be in the Netherlands because I was always. On the road visiting clients as.

Piotrek
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Anne
But for a year I got to change my job to being customer service

Piotrek
Okay.

Anne
and helpdesk, basically. So I worked a little less than I used to, I think, for a day spread over five. And I had just had shifts that I would be behind the computer and behind the phone to just answer questions from customers.

Piotrek
And would you need then to kind of follow the timezone of the Netherlands?

Anne
Yes. So I worked like on the Help Desk itself. I worked 4 hours a day so I could kind of pick either the afternoon or the morning and depending on time zones. But yeah, it still meant that in South America I started at seven, which is fine, but a bit early, but fine. And in Asia I was working until 12 at night.

Piotrek
Okay. Okay.

Anne
shift. But because I was with such a big community, with multiple people who were doing this and we always had a big workspace available for us for 24 hours in Asia, this was actually really fun because there was also a group of Americans who had to work from like. 12 to 4 or now from like 8

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
to 4 or 10 to 4. So I was always at the end of my ship was shift was always the beginning of their. Shift. I was just one big party, Dad and I. Every space, really.

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
Every 30 minutes. We would do like, push ups. 24 hour grocery store downstairs. So we would get all the candy and all the. Asian snacks and just be you know, it was actually really fun. And those people that worked until four in the morning, we would then meet for breakfast after. Some kind of cafe and. Yeah.

Piotrek
Does it mean that you would need to kind of downgrade a bit your position in the company to keep working with them?

Anne
Not so much because I was already working on another project on the site, so working 4 hours from me for a day. So was good. And yeah, I think I already was on four days with them before as well.

Piotrek
Okay. Okay. So it all kind of landed.

Anne
Yeah.

Piotrek
Nice that you could talk with them and they were flexible enough to allow you to do that. Did they have any kind of requirements for you that, Oh, you,you , you need to report that you are doing your job correctly? Or was there anything. That kind of.

Anne
Well.

Piotrek
It.

Anne
With an helpdesk, that's quite easy because if no one picks up the phone, I'm not there, you know. So it is very easy to control if I was there or not. And I had just these tickets that I have had to go through. And so I couldn't really not be at my job those 4 hours, especially those 4 hours. So. And yeah, I think that was also not an issue. I think it was more beforehand. The fact that I chose Remote Year helped to convince. My job because they were promising a workspace and they were promising good Wi-Fi.

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
And I think if I would have come up with the idea myself of like, hey, I would just want to travel the world and I can, you know, I'm sure I can work wherever I want before, like now. Now we know a bit more. But back then. They would have maybe not had the confidence that I would make that work. We were also going to Morocco, for example. And yeah, if I would have done that by myself, it would have been a different situation. But because Remote Ear was kind of responsible for offering me

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
this setup and

Piotrek
Hmm. Hmm.

Anne
they were okay to give it a try.

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
Yeah.

Piotrek
Yeah, Yeah, that sounds. Sounds very good.

Anne
It worked so well that after me, another colleague of mine went on.

Piotrek
Did they say? The same company.

Wow. Well, yeah, this is definitely recommendation for anyone who is still struggling with this idea. And do they accept the payment for the whole program in, like, monthly chunks or.

Anne
Yeah, There's a monthly payment. You pay a deposit upfront and then it's a monthly payment.

Piotrek
Okay. And so, uh, the one year is it like, like requirement that you need to start and finish or can you, like, you know, get away after three months or.

Anne
Yeah. So you can always quiz. Of course, we had some people quitting as well because it just really wasn't for them or

Piotrek
Mhm.

Anne
because of personal reasons or.

Piotrek
Mm.

Anne
Lost her job, things like that. So we started with 67 people and we. 52, I think. And this was really in the beginning of remote year. So we were group number four and now they've actually also been. There's another owner now and the groups are way smaller. Also. COVID? I think so. Now you're with like 20 people maybe.

Piotrek
Mm hmm. Mm

Anne
But there's always people that go and they decide it's not for them. So then you just lose your deposit.

Piotrek
hmm.

Anne
But yeah, you just don't pay for the four months upcoming. I think I mean, that's

Piotrek
No.

Anne
how it was for people that were with in my group.

Piotrek
hmm.

Anne
But they also do form on programs.

Piotrek
Okay.

Anne
So you don't have to commit to a full year. I would, for sure, but. You don't have to.

Piotrek
Uh, besides the great connection that you created between, uh, the people there, out there and the other, uh, special elements that you now feel that build your confidence or build your life experience after the whole thing.

Anne
Yeah, for sure. I mean, we did so many things. We saw

Piotrek
Mm.

Anne
so many things, but the group and the connections with the group is the main part like that.

Piotrek
Okay.

Anne
So special to be with 50 people for a whole year and go through all of that for a whole year.

Piotrek
So you start at the same time with

Anne
Yeah.

Piotrek
all of

Anne
It's

Piotrek
those.

Anne
the whole group that moves over to world,

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
the 50 of you from one country to another. You go all together in a plane from one continent to another. So that makes that remote areas very different than any other experience at the. Travel wise, right?

Piotrek
Yeah. Yeah.

Anne
Other than that, I did so many amazing things. So they. Four continents in a year. And. Yeah.

Piotrek
Who are the people that would benefit from this the most, do you think? Who should?

Anne
I think there's two. think one, if you're sure, like if you have not done remote work or you know, traveled while working yet, could be a really good start. Because, yeah, they do organize a lot for you and you don't have to worry about things like, Can I find good wi fi, Can I? Where do I live? All these things, even visas and things like that. They organize for you, I think. So that's you know, would say that's for people that have never done this. And

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
It's for people that just don't want to deal with all the organization as well, and that's rather pay someone to do it for them. Because I think if you are already going to co-living spaces and you're already a used to this lifestyle and you don't mind just like booking it yourself, basically, then I'm not sure if it adds a lot anymore, but.

Piotrek
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Anne
For people that have never done it yet,

Piotrek
Mm.

Anne
could be a good way to get into the lifestyle. And to

Piotrek
Okay.

Anne
convince your boss as well. Although I think now co-living spaces themselves can also be a good.

Piotrek
Destination or.

Anne
Yeah. Can be a good proof to a boss like, Hey, they have the whole set up, Don't worry. But otherwise, a remote can help you with that as well.

Piotrek
Do they offer some kind of special paper or some presentation for your boss to convince them even more?

Anne
When I started today, they didn't. This was quite in the beginning. And but I think at some point I did have help for that. Yeah. But right now, I'm not sure.

Piotrek
Hmm. And how much autonomy or freedom while on the program do you have? Is it that from Monday to Friday you have the time to work and maybe some afternoon activities and then the weekends are completely off? Or is there any kind of regularity of what has

Anne
So

Piotrek
happened?

Anne
yeah, there is, say, a routine, But you have a lot of freedom and you never you always you pick where you want to be or where you want don't want to be. A lot of people in my group even went on like a bunch of side trips, so they wouldn't be there somewhere for a week or they would skip a whole month because they'd already been to Spain and they went somewhere else. You know, I did that, actually. Malaysia and I went to Indonesia. So you have a lot of freedom, but there is tracks, they call it. So. During the month in inner city. There's a city team as well, and they will organize in the weekends or at night, a few different activities that you can. Up for. And then there's like, usually like a welcome party and a goodbye party and every

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
city,

Piotrek
Hmm

Anne
things like that. So there's things to do. People organize a lot themselves if, of course, as well.

Piotrek
hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Anne
But there's a lot of freedom in why you want to join in not. So it's kind of like you're just living in a city.

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
You just have a bunch of roommates or friends around, you know?

Piotrek
Yeah. Yeah. It feels very special. Yeah, it's. It's that if you are new. To to this whole thing, then definitely you should try. Okay, Let's switch gears towards being an entrepreneur and running your own business. Um, we talked a bit, uh, before recording the podcast that you, uh, had a business with your with Young. Um, could you tell me more about the back pocket?

Anne
Yeah. Yeah. So this happened after I came back from that backpack trip solo.

Piotrek
Mm hmm.

Anne
And my brother was he's a web developer, web designer,

Piotrek
hmm.

Anne
and he was ready to do something new. And he really wanted to do like an e commerce website,

Piotrek
Mm

Anne
which

Piotrek
hmm.

Anne
he hadn't done before. And I just came back from my backpack trip. So we're kind of like brainstorming a bit like, oh, what would be a good like a good Easter and things like that? And so we came up with like a basic kit with everything you need when you go backpacking for the first time. And we were actually so enthusiastic about it that we started doing this together, and we did it for about two or three years. Until I moved to remote. Yea, actually during the year I was still working with him, but then after we decided that I would. Go do my own thing. And Mel ended up moving away. But yeah, so that's how that started. And Young was really kind of like the force behind that with all the knowledge as well. I was more of the I mean, I knew the market the best because of all my backpack trips and like, so the, the products were more my speciality, I would say, like I have more knowledge about like, okay, what do these backpackers actually need and. What does it have to look like and how would you know? And he was the back end of all of that, you know.

Piotrek
Hmm. Was there a lot of research or market research that you did that? Oh, there was no specialized shop in the Netherlands for that. So that

Anne
Yeah.

Piotrek
you decided to do.

Anne
We did quite some research. There's a few shops like that's in the Netherlands, but no one who is offering like a kit that you can kind of like build on later. But we really wanted to offer something. One product that people don't have to think about, like,

Piotrek
Okay.

Anne
okay, apparently this is what I need when I go backpacking for the first time. Which really worked as well that way. And then people could also give it as a present for someone who was going on like a trip for the first time. So.

Piotrek
What was in the kit.

Anne
Like things like a little travel towel that like, you know, the ones that. My are microfiber so they they

Piotrek
Quick. Dry.

Anne
yeah to dry relief. There was a headlight in there there was these refill bottles to

Piotrek
Mm

Anne
put

Piotrek
hmm.

Anne
your shampoo and stuff in there. There was a small HBO kit like a.

Piotrek
First day.

Anne
First aid kit. Sorry. Yeah. Head plugs for if you're in a hostel like, yeah, there was quite some things. I think in the end we had like, 21 things in kids or something.

Piotrek
Was it also branded with your.

Anne
Yeah, it was all branded. And so a lot of the research that we had to do was also just like that. And.

Piotrek
Players.

Anne
Suppliers and where to get everything and. The materials in all these things and the brand on top of it. And yeah, so it was a fun project. It took a lot of time, but we ended up having a really cool website that worked really well. Yeah.

Piotrek
And your brother is still running the business, selling those kits and backpacks.

Anne
He is, but because of COVID now and is backpacking right now. So for the last two years it's been kind of stopped. And that's yeah, that's really hard, I guess really sad because it was going really well just before COVID, actually. He was also selling like backpacks. And, you know, he he.

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
Did really well. But yeah, right now it's

Piotrek
Mm

Anne
everything.

Piotrek
hmm.

Anne
Playing still.

Piotrek
And was it always as a side project for you and your brother?

Anne
Yeah. Yeah. Luckily it was.

Piotrek
So he also has some other like main job.

Anne
He's a web developer. Web designer. And so this was his also his side project.

Piotrek
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. But, uh, when I check the website, it looks like it's, uh, like focusing only on, um, Dutch market. Is that enough? Like before the COVID? Was there enough Dutch travelers?

Anne
Yeah, Dutch people are crazy about backpacking, so I would say so many people that either just come from university or just come from high school or have a gap year go travelling like it's such a popular thing.

Piotrek
Okay,

Anne
Either for a few months or for a full year. But yeah, backpacking is something that

Piotrek
everyone.

Anne
most Dutch teenage jurors will or like young teens.

Piotrek
Uh huh. Uh huh. Is it, do you think, somehow related to the culture, like the history that you had the colonies in the past and.

Anne
Yeah, and maybe because we're so small.

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
You know, so you would want to leave at some point and is explore a little bit of the rest of the world. But it's very normal in the Netherlands to go backpacking and no one even looks weird about it, you know, like no one thinks about it even twice anymore Because everyone around

Piotrek
Yeah,

Anne
you is going.

Piotrek
that's.

Anne
Even parents and grandparents and everyone right now like, Yeah, of course you go backpacking. That's what.

Piotrek
Did they also do it like do think the previous generation or previous previous generation did?

Anne
Well, I don't think necessarily because. My end was also one of probably one of the first backpackers and now not the first, but she was when I grew up she was a backpacker and she would always go with a friend to like Peru and Guatemala and places that in that moment no one would really go to, especially not just a woman or two girls on their own. And she had this really, really old, big, heavy backpack and.

Piotrek
The metal frame.

Anne
Yeah. And she would go to places where now there's like hundreds of hostels, but

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
she would just arrive there and there would be nothing. So I think it's definitely something that's developed in the last.

Piotrek
Mm hmm.

Anne
30 years for sure. And

Piotrek
Mm

Anne
before

Piotrek
hmm.

Anne
that, I don't think she like she went to Peru or Guatemala and people thought she was insane.

Piotrek
Okay.

Anne
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And even me, I remember two stories about it and also the picture I said, looks like she was. In the middle of nowhere. And she was because there just wasn't the infrastructure for travelers that there is now.

Piotrek
Okay.

Anne
Whereas now people.

Sounds like it's next door. You know.

Piotrek
Is she still travelling?

Anne
Yeah.

Piotrek
Okay. Okay.

Anne
Yeah, but not as much as like a backpacker anymore

Piotrek
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Anne
with.

Piotrek
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Anne
Trouble.

Piotrek
Is she coming back again to South or Central America or somewhere else?

Anne
But they do still like now. She has a husband and they do still go to like interesting places.

Piotrek
Yeah. Yeah.

Anne
Not sure what the last. I think they went to Jordan, for example, and like but now they do more. And his group, um, travels I think. But yeah, she definitely still likes to explore.

Piotrek
So nice. So probably now we have a lot of topics. Between you, Nguyen.

Excellent. So. You are now experience with running a business in Spain and we will slowly move to the whole section. About nine Co-living. But do you see a big difference between how it is to run the company in the Netherlands and the here in Spain?

Anne
Yeah, very big difference.

Piotrek
The.

Anne
Of course, it was like in the Netherlands, it was fully online business. And here I have a house, so it's already a very different business. So I think that's, you know, it's hard to say, but the Netherlands is just a very regulated. Which makes that it's one very fast, efficient, easy. But it also makes that it's not flexible at all.

Piotrek
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Everything has to be according to the rules.

Anne
Yes. Yes, exactly.

Piotrek
hmm.

Anne
And whereas in Spain, things take forever. There's a lot of bureaucracy. But

Piotrek
Rules

Anne
on the

Piotrek
are

Anne
other

Piotrek
there

Anne
hand. Yeah.

Piotrek
and people are doing this.

Anne
Exactly. On the other hand, it's a little bit more flexible. As well. So yeah, I feel like it's a whole different universe basically to have a business here or there. But I have to say like, I think if you compare it to like South America or Central America, Spain and Canary Islands are still quite easy to run a business. It's all very clear what you have to do. Yes, it takes forever, but there's a lot of help and it's very quite regulated. Not everyone is following the rules, but there is a lot of rules in place.

Piotrek
Mm. And

Anne
All those.

Piotrek
those. Skills necessary to talk with the city council or other government body to, you know, start the company and then follow with the taxes. And, uh, if anything is changing, then you need to respond quickly. Is it something that you kind of learn naturally by your own experience, or did you have some other stories or people in your family

Anne
Yeah. My dad is a big inspiration. And help as well. And support and. So he's basically my business coach. I would

Piotrek
Okay.

Anne
say. He? Yeah, he has had company all my life.

Piotrek
Okay.

Anne
As long as I know.

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
And.

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
Yeah. Also big companies that kind of grew from him being in the basement, working

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
by

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
himself until like like 20 people working for him. So. Yeah. I come from an entrepreneurial family. My dad, my brother. So that helps a lot. Not to

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
think that it's super scary or and to have backup as well. Yeah.

Piotrek
The confidence is

Anne
Yeah.

Piotrek
something that many people are lacking because they never met the person the.

Anne
Yeah.

Piotrek
Staying with this kind of person.

Anne
Yeah, I hear a lot that people think I'm really brave, but

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
for me didn't really feel like that because I had so many examples of people.

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
Starting companies and companies just working. And yeah, so for me it was a kind of like normal.

Piotrek
And dad is still running. Something going now?

Anne
No. He

Piotrek
Okay.

Anne
sold the company two years ago, I think now, or maybe only a year ago. Just because he was about to retire. And then he got an offer, so he decided to sell. Yeah.

Piotrek
Till now. He's officially retired.

Anne
But now he's officially retired.

Piotrek
So.

Anne
Yeah. Yeah.

Piotrek
And this. Excellent. Is the industry or the industries that your father was in anyhow related to accommodation costs linked.

Anne
No, not at all. The company

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
was in it now. So I have no examples in the hospitality industry except for me just going there. So that was completely new.

Piotrek
Okay, so why did you even consider this crazy idea to travel the world that this is something that you really enjoy finishing your remote year and meeting all those amazing people? from living the life digital to now becoming.

Anne
Here.

Piotrek
Leaving on their.

Anne
Yeah, well, it's kind of funny because I, like I explained I was someone who didn't like to go on holidays, but that was really until I had my first. Travel. And after Dad, I actually became someone who did not feel at home in the Netherlands at all. So there's a big shift there. And so from when I was like, I don't know, like. Yeah. Teenager or. Late. Beginning twenties, but probably before that. I was always saying that I would not end up in the Netherlands. Because I did. And love the Netherlands. It's an amazing country, but I never felt like it was my place. And so when you go travelling, backpacking or nomad ing, you always come back to a place. That you don't like in my case, Right. So I was always escaping a little bit when I was travelling and then coming back to the Netherlands, not feeling at home, not really liking it.

Piotrek
Is it because of the weather?

Anne
Weather's a big part of the weather is a big part, but I think it's also the lifestyle and I miss the nature there a lot. The way our society is like the mindset of. The Dutch society is is for a struggle for me.

Anyway. So I went on remote here and came across this concept of co-living, which sparked like a dream in me because I was always dreaming about owning a little hostel somewhere and. But when I came across the concept of Co-living, I thought, But this is even better than a. Because. The people have more money, that people stay longer. It gives you way more of an opportunity to connect to them as well, instead of backpackers who come and go every few days.

Piotrek
Mm hmm.

Anne
So yeah, I really got interested in the business. And then when I came back in the Netherlands after remote year, I decided to first give. The city where I was from, ever had a beautiful house and such a good social life and so many friends and my family around. So I really felt like just give this one more chance because you have such a good set up like. like. It felt a bit spoiled maybe as well to just be like, Oh, I have to go back to the Netherlands because I had such an amazing life there as well. after six months, I feel like no. Still not my place. And then I really felt like, okay, but now then I want to find a place that is my home instead of leaving again and then coming back to this and feeling the same thing and. And I was ready to kind of go somewhere for longer so that I could really build a community around me because that's what I really loved about Remote Year. But then after a year, you all split up and you feel like the world's ending.

Piotrek
Mm.

Anne
So I thought, What about this co-living thing? Maybe I can really do that and build my life around it. In a place where I like to be, like, full

Piotrek
Mm hmm.

Anne
time.

Piotrek
Mm hmm.

Anne
So that's how the dream of the living really started to take shape and.

Piotrek
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Anne
Action as well.

Piotrek
Very nice. I remember that so many people coming to nine. Um, I ask you this question. Why name a name like this. Would you like to to tell the short

Anne
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Piotrek
story for this?

Anne
And is it related to remote? Yeah. Because in the second month that we were there, we were in Lisbon. We were split two two groups in terms of. Accommodat and my group, we were living in a place called Nine Student Living, so it was a big student house that was empty for the summer and it just had such a good community vibe because the garden and the kitchen and the. Communal spaces. But even like the little corridors with the rooms that we had and stuff, it was just it really, really worked. And because it was our second month, it was such a great space to really get to know

Piotrek
Mm hmm. Mm

Anne
Because

Piotrek
hmm.

Anne
we were right at the beginning of the journey of getting to know each other. So we spent a lot of time just like cooking there, making music there, having movie nights. So I really, really loved that space. So when we. And also because in a lot of the other cities that we were we were in apartments with maybe two or three people, whereas here we were split into two. So there was like 30 or let's say 20 or 30 of us, right?

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
So it big, community there in that house, which was really nice. whole year after that, when we kind of moved to other places, I kept hearing myself say, I wish we had nine still here. Like, Oh, I wish we could still be a nine. I wish we could just take a night and bring it with us everywhere. I just in terms of that.

Piotrek
Mm hmm.

Anne
So yeah, when I was looking for a name for my co-living, I was just writing down some memories of like,

Piotrek
Mm hmm.

Anne
okay, what were places that I

Piotrek
Mm.

Anne
resonated with during that year or before or, you know, and I was looking for something short and catchy as well. And when I thought of nine, I was just, yeah, that's.

Piotrek
Yeah. Yeah. Of

Anne
It

Piotrek
this.

Anne
hit me like.

Yeah.

Piotrek
So nice. And terms of the size, would you compare that the current building where the Mingus is more or less the space that you had in in Lisbon?

Anne
I think it was a bit bigger, but it was just more like a show. The kitchen and garden were communal, but other than that, it was really a student flat, so it was all different rooms with a bathroom. And a corridor. So we now have also a living. There was no living room. There was no. No. Like there was

Piotrek
So

Anne
a.

Piotrek
this setup is much, much better.

Anne
This is. Yes. Yes, I would say so, Yeah. But that was also in the middle of Lisbon. So you. This is a different, very different setup. But and it was a bit bigger, I think it.

Piotrek
Okay, So you had a dream. You decided with the name, but you were coming back. That would be the second time. Yeah. And then the reef.

Anne
Actually. I've also been to Tenerife with my parents twice on. A day.

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
So I've been in Tenerife three times before.

Piotrek
Before, okay? But you never arrive to load or travel.

Anne
I'd only been in the south of the island,

Piotrek
Of

Anne
actually,

Piotrek
course.

Anne
so I didn't even know the North existed.

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
So in my head, Tenerife was a place for holidays, for resorts, for.

Piotrek
That's the feeling when you are in love, Christiane.

Anne
Yes.

Piotrek
30 years.

Anne
Yeah. Because. Yeah. And when I was working with the boats, wi the whales and dolphins, it was also just in lost casinos and. And in America. So I had never considered.

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
Place to live. Until I started doing research. Online basically

Piotrek
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Anne
for

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
my co-living because I decided I wanted to start a co-living in Europe. The obvious choice for me would have been to Dominican Republic. Colombia. Costa Rica.

Piotrek
But they are not yet

Anne
Some

Piotrek
in Europe.

Anne
somewhere over there, you know, but. It's felt just a little bit to heart. Too big of a step for

Piotrek
Mm hmm.

Anne
me to go there by myself. Start a business, build maybe little house, have

Piotrek
hmm.

Anne
my family so far away from me as a woman on my own in these countries.

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
We all know that. You know the stories about them. So thought, okay, so what if I just start in Europe?

Piotrek
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Anne
So just make the step for myself a little bit more

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
doable. And I really wanted to have my parents kind of around because they're such a big support.

Piotrek
Mm.

Anne
And because I already spoke Spanish, I thought, okay, let's start searching

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
in Spain, because otherwise I have to. Learn a whole new. First, because like you said, I'm a big, big advocate of save of saying that you need to learn a lot.

Piotrek
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Anne
First right for start a company. So I started researching Spain. And yeah, the Canaries were kind of an obvious result.

Piotrek
Mm

Anne
Once

Piotrek
hmm.

Anne
I found out there, there was surfer, that there was this whole lake north side of Tenerife, which was way more local. The great weather all year round. Of course the Spanish. course the Canary Islands seven islands. But Tenerife and Gran Canaria are the biggest ones, right? So they're also the best connected and they have the most variation of things to do in Cancun, adding, I already had a big nomad. Hub in Las Palmas, the capital. And so I found all these co-living staring co-working stare and groups on Facebook. And when I looked at Tenerife, there was nothing.

Piotrek
Which is super weird. Yeah.

Anne
One co-working space. Kicking in the sun. And so I was like, okay, it seems like.

Piotrek
Let's write.

Anne
Like Dana Reeve, might be an option.

Piotrek
Before we dig deeper this thread, you ever consider Dutch Islands the Caribbean's?

Anne
No, not really. Just because they were so far away.

Piotrek
Okay.

Anne
I really liked the fact that my parents or could be here four or 5 hours and that I could be there as well.

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
Also, being in Europe, working with the euro, having full like right to buy Yeah, to buy a start a company here, buy a house, all these things.

Piotrek
Uh, okay. So the nerve of then there, if there's, uh, more local space and, uh, little cozy town of lower power. You're lending here for the very first time. Did you already have, like, a shortlist of ten real estate that you want to go and check and see?

Anne
Yeah, for sure. So I started just looking at properties and was not necessarily in that water tower. And I contracted or I reached out to local real estate agent. And they. Told me they could show me houses. Right. So I booked a ticket to come here with my parents in January 2018. And before that, I just sent I don't know how many links of houses to them. And this is where my dad is like a business. Consultant basically came in and so on.

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
He was like, okay, on there, if you want to look at a house here, then don't narrow your search. Now, you will want to look at really, really cheap houses that you think are never going to be suited and really way too expensive houses just so that you get a good impression of the market. So I sent them. I don't know how many links of houses from like four bedrooms and €100,000 to. Million. 2 million? You're a very light, actually. And they made a selection. I did tell them already that

Piotrek
The agency.

Anne
interested.

Piotrek
The local agency.

Anne
Yeah. Yeah. The real estate agency. I did already tell them that I was interested in the north of the island and that I was specifically interested in loud at that farm. And they did not understand that at all. They were like. Why? I Do you want to go to Laura's? About.

Piotrek
There's nothing there.

Anne
It's cold and it rains all the time. Plus, if people want to find a they have to be in the South. And I was like, Yeah, but that's not the concept.

Piotrek
So they didn't understand that.

Anne
It was really hard to explain the concept of a co-living. They really thought that I was going to provide work for people and he's like, No, I just need.

Piotrek
It's not enough.

Anne
Good fi.

So they. Of course, listened to what I had to say. And so we looked at 11 properties in ten days, and I think that four of them were in Laura Devore. And the rest were kind of spread all over the island. So we saw some in the south as well. And some others in the north. But the day before, we went to look at houses in loud at that. parents and I, we went look around the town. Bus here and we kind of walked from actually the bus station through the street that.

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
Sitting now. We had a coffee there at the little. And then we walked over the bridge into. That.

Piotrek
To see the year.

Anne
Center and we got such a beautiful impression. And we took a picture, of from the bridge down. Not knowing that I was. picture of nine. And not knowing that we were actually looking at my future home, of course. So

Piotrek
Mm

Anne
yeah, I got a really, really good feeling with Laura. And

Piotrek
Mm

Anne
then the next day we went to look at houses and one of them was the building that nine is in now, and all three of us just fell in love. And none of the other houses came even close. So.

Piotrek
Okay. What was the state of the building?

Anne
Quite good. Yea. I mean, I did a lot of work and I remodeled most of the bathrooms, repainted everything.

Piotrek
Hmm. Hmm.

Anne
Everything.

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
The front of the house was fully new,

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
so it was a lot of work because it's such a big old house.

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
But the house was already livable, you know, like it wasn't a ruin at all.

Piotrek
And the previous owners had some idea of Airbnb or something like this.

Anne
The previous owners were a Spanish couple that had rooms in Airbnb, but his dream actually was to have a hostile guest house type. Where they would also offer Spanish lessons. So.

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
Living, just not for nomads

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
or digital nomads, but never worked out. So yeah, at some point they were a bit older and they decided to to sell.

Piotrek
do do they realize how the whole turned up?

Anne
Yeah. The wife actually came to stay and.

Piotrek
Oh. Oh, okay.

Anne
One year after I opened, she came for like three nights. It's amazing. It. And yeah, right from the beginning we kept kind of in contact as well and they were really idea. But yes, she actually came to stay at nine. So that was really, really.

Piotrek
Excellent. so nice to see those connections you had that maybe they had some dreams and they never made it. But, uh, your comic and your essentially fulfilling those

Anne
Yeah.

Piotrek
dream.

Anne
Yeah. Happy that yeah. What became of of the building and that. Using it in such a good way now.

Piotrek
But still the very beginning. Yeah. You just found a very good location in a very nice town. And how was that? The, you know, the first three or six months when you need to still renovate or just paint the walls? It's so many of them. Yeah. You cannot do it by yourself. So how did you manage to assemble the crew to help you?

Anne
Yeah. So I had quite a plan. What I did is after we saw the building, I went home and four months later I moved.

Piotrek
Hmm. Hmm.

Anne
So in those four months I was building a website, I was printing stickers. I was I was just like all over the place, getting everything, you know, like I did a lot, actually, before I even moved actually

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
in the house because I had such a clear vision of what I wanted. And one of the things I did is invite people from the remote your network.

Piotrek
Hmm. Hmm.

Anne
And

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
my own friends and family to come over in June and July. So the first two months of

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
me owning, owning the building to help and remodel and basically stay for free and work and whenever they need it, but also help out with. All these things. And because I have such a big network in a remote year community, because remote Ered Biden had done like maybe six programs. So and all these people are in one big Slack group.

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
So I had 26 people showing up in two months and 19 of them I didn't know.

And a lot of them are now on the doors of nine, actually. Of course, they weren't all there at the same time. Some came for a week, some for the first baths, some for the other parts. But so from actually day one, I had the big community around me helping me. Getting the space ready. And then in August, I was there alone for a while, and September I opened. That was a bit slow in the beginning, of course. And then around October, of like mid-October to end of October, it started to fill up.

Piotrek
2018.

Anne
2018. Yeah. And then actually, the first winter I was not as busy as I am now, but I had a really, really good winter. Because it is good destination for nomads in winter. So people are literally just googling co-living. co-living.

Piotrek
Yeah. Where is the sun? Still shining in Europe.

Anne
And because a lot of people know about the hub in Canada,

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
I.

Piotrek
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Anne
There must be something in Tenerife as well.

Piotrek
So they can hop on the ferry.

Anne
Yes, exactly. Yeah.

Piotrek
Plane.

Anne
Yeah,

Piotrek
So it seems that the, um, renovation part, uh, works like in the work away and that you are inviting

Anne
yeah.

Piotrek
volunteers that they can stay for free Part of their taxes to, you know, help with whatever is is to be done today. In terms of the whole shape of the space. Did you also hire some architects or some other designers to to, you know, made it or you you did it by yourself?

Anne
I mostly did it by myself.

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
I had a very clear vision of what I wanted, and I found an amazing contractor. Still works for me whenever I have anything that I need to do in the house. And.

Piotrek
Building wise? Yeah.

Anne
Yeah.

Piotrek
Bathroom

Anne
So he would be

Piotrek
Bathroom

Anne
actually the

Piotrek
or.

Anne
one changing the bathrooms and all these things. But I do have an architect. But mostly because here in Spain, you need an architect for all your paperwork as well to get license and all these.

Piotrek
Okay.

Anne
So she's helped me a lot. But the house itself, I mean, it's so perfect the way it is. I didn't really I didn't even break one wall in the hall.

Piotrek
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Anne
So everything was. Well, I built a wall now, but.

Piotrek
You added.

Anne
We just added another bathroom. But yeah, so it was not that necessary to have someone really look at the and I have a quite good spatial. Yeah, my vision was just really clear of what I wanted to do with every space and.

Piotrek
So nice. Okay, so we have two steps of finding the building, having that group of friends from remote here to help you renovate the whole thing. And then that was interesting also to to listen to you recently on the conference and the ripple conference about the remote work. The panel about colleagues here that. For you. The best marketing strategy was to get on their list of their colleagues. Yeah, but the digital nomads tend to flock together. And once. They hear enough good recommendations from other people for other friends that, oh yeah, there is this new thing and you should definitely go there. Was it again through the remote, your community that you managed to somehow spread news?

Anne
No, not so much, because my first guests were remote here as well. But I do feel like there is a bit of that difference between two nomads community and a remote community. So the community that hops from Co-living to Co-living. It's not necessarily the people that have been on remote. You're I find out when I started to get some people that were like digital nomads that were already living in different co-living. I just kept hearing the same name, so it was. I kept hearing son and I kept hearing Sundance. Mostly dose two and Spain, ones in Morocco. And I just knew, okay, I need to be in that list like I when people talk about college things they need to say like Coast, sun desk and nine. Nina That was my goal.

Piotrek
Okay. Okay.

Anne
And that just happens organically, right? If you do a good job, if people like what you're doing, then they start to talk to other people about it and slowly you become Yeah,

Piotrek
The destination.

Anne
List. Yeah. And now there's way more. And that's really nice. But yeah, I did kind of soon enough. Gustavo's not that many out there at that moment anyway. So soon enough. Yeah. I was on the list of the, you know, with those. With those two and with some others. Yeah. So that too, that was very organic and but very intentional. Again, this.

Piotrek
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Anne
I knew I needed to make it

Piotrek
And

Anne
to.

Piotrek
did you think about reaching out to those living and somehow working with them for a promotion or that happened later?

Anne
That happened later? Yeah. In the beginning, I was kind of just, like, modest, I guess, to just, like, first get things in order, first start running and. But then, yeah, at some point we did get in contact to now actually work together with them.

Piotrek
Hmm. Hmm hmm hmm

Anne
I've been to a few of them.

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
I haven't been to Sandusky, Morocco yet,

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
but

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
it's definitely on the list. Yeah.

Piotrek
It's nice to to hear that, especially when a new industry is emerging, people tend to to help each other and. Just support each other because everything is so new it's better to just fight together against some bureaucracy or some other struggles instead of.

Anne
Yeah.

Piotrek
Yeah. In other industries, there could be such a fierce competition. And then they would try to somehow you over any means that they what was the hardest part of those steps get to the running business for you?

Anne
I would say the wife, I. For sure.

Piotrek
But then again, you had someone to come and help you with that. Isn't it?

Anne
Yes. Getting it in the first place was

Piotrek
Mm

Anne
a

Piotrek
hmm.

Anne
big struggle.

Piotrek
Mm.

Anne
Yeah. promised promised me I could get glass fiber I bought the building. And it ended up that the guy who promised me that. Had never been to nine, had never been to the building in the time that he like. Took weeks to come up with a quote. And he was supposed to do research. He actually never when he came to the first time when I was dairy, had to ask me to address and he told me he couldn't find it. So that said enough. And it turned out that my street was not.

Piotrek
Connected.

Anne
Connected to the glass fiber. And because it's in a historical street, it in and when I open it, blah, blah, blah. So. That was a struggle. Luckily, he came up with a good solution and we have fibre now. But yeah, that was stress because I just bought this massive building. And literally a day after I got the keys, he tells me

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
I couldn't get to wi fi. And I knew that my whole idea of like the company and the business would fall and stand on my right.

Piotrek
Connecting. Being connected to the Internet. Yeah.

Anne
Yeah. So that was a very stressful period.

Piotrek
Yeah. Mm.

Anne
But I'm kind of happy that it happened this way because I feel like if he ever would have told me in the beginning, honestly, like we cannot get Wi-Fi here or not the fibre through the wall, basically. I would have maybe not bought this building and now it was already there. They bought it, so we had to make it work.

Piotrek
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe that's also an important lesson for anyone interested in setting city their own co-living that the technical difficulties tend to be less and less important, even though that, of course, being connected to the internet is like the most important thing for digital.

Anne
One.

Piotrek
It's like they are fighting without water or energy.

Anne
Shower.

Piotrek
Exactly.

Anne
It's okay. But where's my wife?

Piotrek
Exactly.

Anne
Yeah.

Piotrek
If you don't have a proper Internet, there is no way for them to, you know, do their work and earn money and stay at their colleagues. So it's a very important and of course, now there is more and more competition in the space coming. Yeah. Like it's

Anne
Yeah.

Piotrek
just a matter of time when we'll have the satellites from

Anne
Yes.

Piotrek
scaling or some other companies.

Anne
And now also there is around nine a few places where people can actually go to work in a cafe if necessary. But we haven't had a lot of like problems with the Wi-Fi itself. The only things we've had was like power. And that's where you came in. So now we have these batteries that will work for 6 hours. Twice. We had a power cut on the whole island. For some reason. It happened twice on a Sunday. Luckily.

Piotrek
Okay.

Anne
So on Monday everyone could go back to work. But that was very interesting. Such a surreal like. It yeah. Is really then all of a sudden then you realize like, oh yeah, we are only a small island. Yeah. Other than that, not too many struggles, luckily.

Piotrek
Yeah. Excellent. I'm really happy to. Leave something behind. After my stay at nine. The batteries was definitely something that we already tested. It's. Running because when the power was down for the whole building, the most important issue was for people that they were losing connection there with their Zoom meetings or, uh, being on some other.

Anne
And if you're in the dark, it doesn't matter as long as you can still

Piotrek
Because the laptops

Anne
online.

Piotrek
that they are working on, they have their own batteries so they can see their work. And the connection, though the Internet is still running, being supportive of the batteries. And uh, again, with the topic of having your own co-living, you gathered enough experience to now share this, uh, with others. Uh, could you tell me more about what is it? Uh, how to start a co-living video course.

Anne
Yeah, I would say it's quite a small modest side project, so. I'm really happy with that as well. the other hand, and expending a little bit right now, I got a lot of e-mails and questions from people that reach out to have a call or answer some questions over the e-mail because people want to start a co-living as well. And that.

Piotrek
Mm hmm.

Anne
Happened already a little bit before COVID,

Piotrek
Mm

Anne
but

Piotrek
hmm.

Anne
after a dip in like after the first lockdown, basically, I got so many messages from people that I couldn't just keep up because I would always take quite a lot

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
of time to answer those questions and have calls with people.

Piotrek
And now you just send.

Anne
So yeah, at some point I thought this is not possible anymore, but I still would like to share my knowledge or my at least my experience with people. So yeah, he's decided to make a little video course with the seven basics basically on what to know if you want to start one. Based on my experience more than anything. With a lot of practical tips into stuff, I think, as well. And yeah it's that's now online so people can go buy that and then you just get these seven videos and now I'm working on this second. Course, basically, which is all about finances. Because I got a lot of questions after from people were like, okay, this is great, but. I need to know more about money and finances. And I'm not a finance person at all. I'm not. Money is I don't relate really to money. I give

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
it away really easy. You know, like I forget when people owe me money or if I owe people money, like the whole concept of money. I don't like it. I don't. Doesn't resonate with me. But of course we need it. So I have luckily an amazing manager at nine who was an accountant. Sylvia. So. She does all these things for me now, but I have again filmed four or five videos at the. Explaining the financial side of co-living, but really only from my perspective be. I get a lot of questions from people that I just cannot answer because it depends so much on where you are, how your situation is. Yeah, the local tech system, all these things. So I just gave a lot of information about my situation, how people can use it. But yeah, I struggle lately a little bit with getting having a time to really get it done. So it's coming, but it's very late.

Piotrek
Would that be part of the same course that you did or a

Anne
It

Piotrek
separate.

Anne
will be like a separate course.

Piotrek
Mm

Anne
But the people that have already bought the first one will get the second one as well. And like it will be like another.

Piotrek
Okay. So if anyone wants to.

Anne
And.

Piotrek
The nine living that come and there is a button focus on the end. Um, a video course so you can get into the minutia of running this kind of business and when I was there. My first living experience was in Kuala Lumpur, where I spent the whole year due to pandemic. That was like a long experience, but I loved it. And then naive move to Thailand. It was even greater experience because of all the people that.

Anne
Hmm. Yeah.

Piotrek
And am curious, why do you think community is the most important part of the cleaning experience?

Anne
I think people are looking for community and they're looking for connections with others. I think especially if you choose the lifestyle of being a digital nomad, you're looking for connections and experiences and adventures, right? And you're kind of brave enough to do that on your own. So then if you find this amazing community that maybe you weren't expecting or you weren't sure, at least if you would find it, then it's it's like an extract gift, you know, like it's. special present

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
on top

Piotrek
Uh huh.

Anne
of like the adventure that you already did by yourself. But then if you also find this amazing community that. Makes it extra special, I think. And then, yeah, a lot of people travel alone. But everyone who does come to Co-living is very social. And he's very open minded. So it's not just I don't want to be alone. It's like the type of connections that you can find in this community I think are so special. That. Yeah, it just makes the whole experience so much more beautiful than when you were on your own and. An Airbnb.

Piotrek
Yeah. Yeah. That's definitely tapping to a. Anxieties that people have even before just having this. notion that, okay, if I go along with a backpack for, you know, a month to self, uh, East Asia, then you know, I'm coming back again to my home, to

Anne
Yes.

Piotrek
my friends, to my community that I know that I grew up with or that I feel a strong attachment to. But if you are just full time digital nomad that is just hopping from one place to another, of course, being in touch over the phone, it's easy to like, but having the ability to build a real connection with a human being, having the

Anne
Yeah.

Piotrek
touch and the other important cues of a body language and just being in one space together. Yeah, like having a meal or having some games together. It's totally unique. And so I must admit that this is definitely the most hard to explain part for people who never tried it. And some people can doubt that like, Oh, but I can find it, uh, in lower and urban be that is, you know, was it twice the price of the of the co-leading. So why, why do I even bother if I, if I can do the same on my own. And my answer to this kind of conundrum is that no you cannot. It's something that really needs to be set up by someone who understand what is the community, What is that creating a space? Yeah. What is the kind of the whole system of supporting not only the basic needs, not only the interest, but also have the actual, you know, time and space for. Connection.

Anne
Yeah, I fully, fully agree. And I think the main thing about Co-living for me. Is that? It's not just about the community. It's about someone taking the responsibility for can.

Piotrek
Mm hmm.

Anne
So if you go to a student house, there's also community rage or

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
whatever, but. There is no one responsible.

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
So you have to figure it out with your. With each other. And. And

Piotrek
hmm.

Anne
therefore, it can go really good or bad. Or it keeps. Can go back and forth a little bit because a new person comes in and it brings the whole balance of the group off for, you know, like even in friend groups and stuff. Whereas like in a community like nine, I think because I take it so serious to take responsibility of this community and of like how healthy this community is, basically it makes that it's very stable. And whoever comes into that community will fit in and get the right connections out of that right. So yeah, I think you can do it yourself. You can do Vila, share all these things. But I would say be aware that like fostering community is a whole job on its

Piotrek
Yeah, it's.

Anne
They.

Piotrek
It's putting you in a strange position. Yeah. That you want to be friends with everyone, but at the same time you some. Need to be the party and like telling them Sorry.

Anne
It's still curfew at 11, so be quiet. Yeah, for sure. But it goes really natural, I think. And because people that come to mind are so open minded and so respectful and so looking for the right type of connection and it's never really an issue. Yeah, I'm a little bit maybe different than, you know, even two volunteers or something sometimes are more in the community than. I am, but I feel part of the community for sure. And I make so many connections and friendships and so.

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
It's not like I'm not part of it. Yeah, but I'm very aware of my role, at least in the community.

Piotrek
Mm hmm. And did you gain those skills before? Like, did you ever manage some kind of community space or center?

Anne
No, I was just a teacher. High school teacher. It started there. Maybe now has just grown from this vision and this dream that I had. And living in communities a lot. So also, I am a community person and I am a connector and I am someone who thrives living in a community. So. I think that's maybe the experience I had, but not necessarily in being the responsible person of the community yet. But you.

Piotrek
There is this interesting concept that I found at some point that we are all having the families. That we are born into and

Anne
Otherwise

Piotrek
lives.

Anne
we.

Piotrek
Can trade. Family that we choose.

Anne
Mm hmm. Yeah.

Piotrek
And it's beautiful in a sense that the connections that we are creating with people who we may not be anyhow related feel sometimes so strong if we compare it to our own ties or uncles or someone who should be an obvious choice yet like, Oh, because know him or her for such a long time. And if you don't have, you know, those those connections or if you're traveling a lot or if you're, you know, in a completely different bubble. Because now I have this experience here that my family that I was born in, they don't really understand what I'm it's like for many, many years they know that I'm traveling and, like, doing something on a computer, but. It's super important to find the people that the family that you choose that instantly gets you. Yeah, like that was magical that in the first two weeks when I was staying in Maine, it was that. Nobody kind of doubt what I am doing and how I'm doing and why I'm here or there. No, they are all doing the same thing. Yeah. So if again, you are looking for the digital nomads, the true community of people who are experiencing that, who have those stories and and such as they love being the part of it. It's amazing to. Start. Yeah. The remote here is something that definitely

Anne
You know, the.

Piotrek
that you, you can, uh, you know, try for some time. But after that, if you really feel that this is something you want to go on for a year, then go for a co-living and.

Anne
Again.

Piotrek
This is just my perspective. Staying long term is also. More possibility. Yeah, because some people are coming just for a week

Anne
Now. It's not enough.

Piotrek
It's never enough, isn't

Anne
It's

Piotrek
it?

Anne
not enough. And even two weeks, would say a month is great. Probably longer, but definitely a month because it gives you if you're working full time.

Piotrek
Mm

Anne
It gives you enough time to and explore and also just kind of like be in your own process of of all of this. Take your own time every now and then and fully like engage with the community. And I think you need all of those things. And a week is just not enough. It's funny what you said as well about, like your chosen family and your family from home. And what I really like about what you see happening at nine a lot is that it when people have family and friends over from home. They are so excited to show their life at nine. Because they feel like now they will finally get it.

Piotrek
Yes.

Anne
They do a lot of the times they you know, they really for. Finally understand this is why this is so important

Piotrek
Uh, yeah,

Anne
or special for you, because it's

Piotrek
exactly.

Anne
hard to grasp until you're there. What this community can do for you and with

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
you. Yeah.

Piotrek
Especially when we are still in the phase that people understand backpacker hostels. Yeah, because this is something that has been for decades and people somehow maybe understand the co-working. Yeah, it's this kind of like an office that you can rent for hours or, you know, weeks in a place. But if you merge those two together and create a new quality because that's, you know, something much, much better than just having a hostel with a co-working, then you have the proper co-living and. Could you tell me more about what kind of people are staying at night? Yeah, the whole spectrum.

Anne
Yeah. Who is staying at nine? It's everyone who is working remotely. For me, it's really important to create a community that is not. Monotone because there is some colorings, I think as well, that are very strict in their selection process. And for me, the danger in that is that if I would go look for people that fit at nine, I would end up with people who are all like me. Like

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
all have the same job or all the same kind of age or all like these really active hip yoga people. Which is amazing, but. What I love about nine is that we have so many different ages, backgrounds, people, people that are the hip yoga.

Piotrek
The barking you are hearing is from Lauren.

Anne
You hear a lot in the background.

Piotrek
But living in nine.

Anne
Living dog.

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
Yeah. And I think it's really important to have a mix of people, of course. Everyone has in common is that they understand they're coming to like a work environment. Some people work more than others, but everyone's coming to a work environment and they understand that it's really important as well for the balance of the the living. If you have a few people just being on holiday all the time, I don't think it would work.

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
It's all people that are looking for connections with others. And I think that's really important as well. And I think what's really beautiful about nine is that everyone's really open minded and inclusive, and I think that's something

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
that I maybe force a little bit as in, lik I said, a good example, I think with my team as well, and just like really respecting and accepting everyone. At nine, no matter. Who you are, what you eat, what you do. It doesn't matter. Yeah, I think. And that helps.

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
So I think that's what people have in common. But other than that, all ages, all jobs, all backgrounds are welcome. And I think that's really nice. The community.

Piotrek
Once again, I would emphasize how different the experience is in the college, being that statistical image of digital nomad is this 30 something year old American white earning about 60,000 USD per year and being a software developer. Yeah, so this is like, Oh my God, they all look like Mark Zuckerberg.

Anne
Exactly.

Piotrek
All day long. Their computer.

Anne
So not true. Yeah.

Piotrek
Exactly. And it's like the moment you're walking in and you can take it, just go to nine coloring Instagram and you will see how many different faces there are. Yeah. And also in a sense of age, diversity, Of course, if you would try to make some average, that would be. 30 something. But there are people who are 20 something or people who are 80 something,

Anne
Yes.

Piotrek
and they are all enjoying the same.

Anne
Yeah.

Piotrek
flow of being there because the community is so inclusive.

Anne
The. The 80 somethings are exceptions.

Piotrek
hmm.

Anne
But once they're at nine, they are not treated different,

Piotrek
Yeah.

Anne
you know, and I think that's really important. So you can be an exception in terms of age or your

Piotrek
hmm.

Anne
job. Maybe when you come to a co living. But if you're then also treated different, then

Piotrek
hmm.

Anne
it becomes you become the exception. Really, Really. You know, whereas at nine and on think we treat you any different you're just part of the gang and if you want to join the yoga or want to go clubbing, everyone's welcome. And no one even second guesses that.

Piotrek
Yeah. Yeah.

Anne
So yeah, that's what I mean with being very open minded and very inclusive. Yeah.

Piotrek
Do you think those are the qualities that make the whole community healthy?

Anne
Yeah, I think so, yeah. For me, it's very, very important that everyone feels like they're good the way they are, so that we're not trying to push you in a direction of like, Oh, but you are not doing yoga. You should at least, you know, you should do yoga. Or, oh, you're not a Or, you know, even though we have our preferences as a team, I think quite strongly nine is like a yoga healthy community, you know, like probably. And that's maybe also a little bit what we we send out word. A little bit. But if you are not like that at all and you're also really not interested in it at all, there's no judgment. That's really important, I think. Yeah.

Piotrek
Nice. So slowly going to the end of our conversation here. What do you do after the whole busy day at nine to relax and unwind?

Anne
While you just heard her. little bit. So LA is my forced downtime basically. I'm really happy I have a dog and. She forces me to walk at least 2 hours a day.

Piotrek
She's very active.

Anne
Really nice. She's a very healthy, young, active dog. I take that very serious. So I walk with her quite a lot. And there are such beautiful walks here that. It's never. A punishment to go to the forest or to

Piotrek
Mm

Anne
beach

Piotrek
hmm.

Anne
or so. I do walk a lot. I tried to do yoga a few times a week

Piotrek
Mm hmm.

Anne
and I really love to surf. Surf is something that doesn't happen as often, maybe as I sometimes hope. Also because I have a dog. Yeah, those are, I guess, the three things and dancing. I love to dance as well.

Piotrek
Still salsa.

Anne
Still dancing salsa. Yeah.

Piotrek
And now it's even more possible. Yeah, like the lockdowns are.

Anne
Yeah. Now it's starting to lift a little bit. Then there's some good salsa parties around. But yeah, I would say being outside in nature and being active is. What I do to unwind and.

Piotrek
And this is also something that the people of nine are doing to undermine.

Anne
Apart from, of course, also being with people and friends and eat and all the things. I'm quite spoiled, I think, with my lifestyle.

Piotrek
Hmm.

Anne
Never have a. A dull day if I want. And there's always something or someone or there's always something happening.

Piotrek
Yes, I think this is. Exactly the vibe that people are looking for. Yeah, that then the reef is this great destination that not only offers the traditional tourism, yet with this five star hotels in the south and the surfing beaches and vibe of just being in the sunny nice place, but now having the collating. Not only one, because there are many, many more that were happening after the success of

So, yeah, definitely. I wish you to spoil us even

Anne
Yes.

Piotrek
Thank you very much for the conversation and see you around on the island.

Anne
Yes. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure.

Piotrek
Thank you.