Fostering healthy relationships is Dirk Delisse’s specialty. As an online therapist, he supports ambitious people who do have a partner, or have issues finding one. In this episode, Dirk addresses situationships, common in the digital nomad community, and the importance of spending quality time with aging parents. Furthermore, his entrepreneurial journey as an online therapist has its challenges. Listen to this podcast to hear more about Dirk’s transformation since our last conversation two years ago.

Nerd on Tour Podcast with Dirk Delisse episode 2

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What is Dirk’s online therapy for couples?

Healthy Stable Relationship is a 6-month program designed for ambitious couples and singles, who are dissatisfied with love. Dirk has over 15 years experience with more than 1000 clients. In the podcast, we talk how his traveling, mediating in the band, being a meditation mentor, and yoga teacher helped him understand humans. Moreover, working as a licensed therapist in the Dutch healthcare allowed him to create this dedicated program for people seeking improvement in their love relationships.

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Selected links and notes from the conversation with Dirk Delisse

dirkdelisse.nl – the official website for Dirk’s online therapy for couples

instagram.com/dirk.delisse – Dirk’s Instagram channel

Transcript of the episode: Dirk Delisse – Online Therapist for Ambitious Singles and Couples seeking Healthy Relationships

The following transcript is generated via Hindenburg, and it’s not perfect. I’m updating it to be more readable. Nevertheless, it’s already useful, that’s why I’m publishing it.

The transcript has been slightly edited for clarity.

Where in the world are we now?

Piotrek: Hello and welcome. It’s Piotrek Bodera and this is Nerd on Tour podcast and this is a second episode with Dirk, with my very good friend from the Netherlands. And he is now focusing on relationships. So will be talking a lot about what it is to be an online therapist for ambitious singles and couples. Welcome back, Dirk.

Dirk: Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Piotrek. it’s amazing to see you again. And it’s very nice To record the podcast again. I think it’s two years ago. Our previous episode.

Piotrek: More or less. Yeah, we were back in France, in the south, in central in this temporarily living with our friends. And the situation for both of us was so much different. Right now, we are far away from each other. I am currently in Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia, and you are in the Netherlands now?

Dirk: I’m in Paris at the moment, so I stay a little bit in the French zone. So it’s a good mix, right?

Piotrek: Yes. But luckily, thanks to the powers of the Internet, we are able to record this one and let’s go directly into the idea, into the topic of healthy relationships. How would you define it?

What is Dirk Delisse’s work experience?

Dirk: Yeah, that’s a that’s a very good question. And maybe just a small thing for maybe the listener is like, why? Why are we going to talk about healthy relationships?

That’s on one hand, it’s something what we as friends talked a lot about it. so I think that’s why it’s interesting. But on the other hand, it’s also for the last, let’s say, five, six years, my professional life as well, to help people with healthy relationships and some people who may maybe following me a little bit longer before my company was called Flexible Living, and I was helping people with different struggles in life healthy relationships or unhealthy relationships was one part of the clients I help with. And two years ago I decided to skip the other parts because I was also helping people with, for example, anxiety and depression. And that was my 15 years of experience of mental health care as a kind of psychologist.

There was a point. Maybe I can talk about it later a little bit more. But there was a point that I was thinking, like what I like the most? What is the most effective and most. Yeah. Where I can create the most impact on other people’s life. And that’s by far, relationships and the creation of healthy love relationships.

A few years ago, fully committed to that. It was already there. But yeah, I skipped the other parts. It’s maybe good for people to know why. Why we are talking about it. It’s a personal interest, but I think it’s. I know it’s also my, work career as well.

What does it mean to have healthy relationships?

Healthy relationships. It’s very interesting. re going to go deep, of course, in that I think on one hand, there are some basics in a healthy relationship. O course, it’s communication. It’s trust, is safety. It’s a kind of shared values. But it’s very clear for people like I. Yeah, I know this, all right?

But the people who I see the most, it’s not that they don’t have trust for each other, or it’s not that they don’t have love for each other. But there is something that makes a relationship unhealthy or unhappy or unfulfilled. And that’s very interesting. What makes your life or your relationship and happy and fulfilled? Can have many, many different factors.

Piotrek: Thank you for making this introduction and this preparation for everyone. So, it’s definitely connected to the idea and to the movement of digital nomads. So we’ll go deeper into that topic later. But focusing on those relationships, you emphasize that this is your professional work. It’s also your passion. And you’re specifically focused on this one. I do remember in our previous conversation that you mentioned that you are the connective tissue between your band members back in the day when you were in the punk rock group. And would you say that that was the first moment when you realized that you have, this energy, that you have this ability to help people understand each other better?

Four guys in a punk rock band

Dirk: Yeah, it’s interesting. question. Yeah, it’s funny. It’s a long time ago. I was thinking about this. Thank you for reminding me because it’s a very interesting time as well. Fun, but also very difficult.

It’s four guys in a punk rock band. When I was young. And, yeah, of course, you have four personalities, my role in this band was a little bit like the kind of relationship therapist. And your question is, was that the first moment I realized that I have this capacity?

Where did Dirk first notice his remarkable therapeutic skills?

Yes and no. I think before I was already working for mental health care, but it was not so clear that this was really my role in the band, for example. So I think it took me seven years before, I remember the lead singer noticed I was making some mistakes and while recording an album, you know. We recorded many albums, and I was making some mistakes, and I was like, oh shit, my guitar work is not great. I’m not the Slash of the world, you know. And then he said, but Dirk, you don’t realize how important you are for this collective. The fact that we are here now, it’s also because you have quality to keep us together.

To realize like, oh yeah, that’s true! What he’s saying. And also, I realize why I’m not in a punk rock band anymore. And why I am working professionally on relationships of people. Because I think I’m better at this last part, than at playing the guitar.

How did his empathy and skills evolve?

Piotrek: Okay. As you say, like, I’m not a musician, so I cannot, determine how good you are. But I did notice. Since we met, there is this quality, that I recognize, that you create trust. That people just come to you, and tell you secrets. Or tell you their issues that they’re having with some other people. It doesn’t matter if it’s romantic relationship or with parents or at work. So how did it develop over time? You mentioned that you were already involved in working in mental health. So what were the other turning points where you were noticing okay, I am really good at it.

Dirk: Yeah. it’s interesting question. We can zoom a little bit more. So I was working, I always explained like a kind of psychology mental health care, and I was working with individuals, of course. A lot of times I was inviting also a partner or a mother or family members. Or there was also a time I was working in crisis shifts, you know?

Working on crisis shift with emergency personnel

So at night when people had big problems, they call the police, for example, called me and I came into situations with, for example, a young woman who was very depressed and didn’t want to live anymore. And there was a dad and a mom and the boyfriend. Because we broke up and that’s why she felt like that. And mum was like: “yeah, but it needs to stop”. And dad invited his neighbor because it was difficult for him to talk. So you had lots of, you know, dynamics in this system.

I felt very sorry for the people, but I loved to do like this. There is a Dutch word, but I don’t know the English word, but it’s from the systematic therapy. You know, it’s how you can let everyone feel that they have been seen and to be understood. And you know, this is, what makes it very interesting. And this is also what’s in it for the listener like if you invest in yourself that you can really understand the other. Even if you are fully disagree or even if you think, but this is so not helpful.

How to empathize with people in distress

But if you can understand why the other feels or behave as they do, then the fight will be 80% less. And create the open space where you can, in this case of mental health care, work with each other. And then in a love life, where you can work on your relationship or work on your communication.

So I think go back to the crisis shift. I realize if I can leave everyone on the table being: that’s great. But how do you calm down people when they are so high in emotion? It’s by understanding them, you know?

The only thing I tried to understand the other. And then they feel that you’re trying it and respect them, and then they feel like are okay. And then they open up, and then they want to negotiate in this case.

Dealing with crisis shift as an analogy to healthy relationships

This is also a metaphor for why a lot of relationships are difficult, unfulfilled or unhealthy is because people are stuck in emotions. And stuck in their needs and their feelings. And partner is not doing this or that or, you know, and why you don’t give me this?

The first step is, I think, to create some openness of flexibility and capacity. That’s on the other hand is also very true. You can understand, but that doesn’t mean that it’s helpful for you. So, and this may be interesting. Maybe people recognize in this. So this was in my life. It was also a very difficult part because I was so good and understanding and I saw so many nuances.

But on the other hand, it didn’t help me because sometimes it’s also good, too, to be a little bit black and white. And say like, okay, I really understand that this is your needs, but I’m sorry, and I respect that. And it’s okay for you. I don’t want a person in my life with this type of need, and I respect you, and you don’t need to change. But, yeah, if we want to be together, let’s find common ground. You know, so this was my problem in my love life. I accepted too much of the other. And it was not the problem of the other. It was me being too sweet and too. Yeah, too open for everything. And difficult to stand my ground more and to come up for my needs.

The Mr. Nice Guy syndrome

Piotrek: This speaks so well into the book that you recommended me, and it helped me a lot. No More Mr. Nice Guy, is such a good book. And understanding, where it comes from. A then understanding that, reading the emotions of the other person is the first thing. And then we need to be, really in touch with our own needs and emotions. Then as you were saying, we cannot be, pleaser and fixer in every situation. We’re just coming there like, I will solve it. Will fix it! For you and you and you and everyone. And everyone will be happy. No!

The range of emotions that we have are there because they are telling us something very important. And sometimes it’s just good to be sad, you know, sometimes it’s good to be concerned because we can grow from it. We do not have to be all the time happy and joyful. And hugging everyone and kissing. So this is very helpful. I’m really glad that you recommended me this book, and now you’re telling those examples. Would you say that this is also important step in recognizing when the relationship that we have is not healthy?

Dirk: Yeah. Let me say this, what you just said, it’s in the past, lots of talks about my relationship, but also yours. And then I recommended you the book. I read it myself years and years ago, and it changed my life. Because I was too sweet as a man, you know? I was too sweet. I was always taking care of women. Of course, I also needed some attention and approval by other man. That didn’t make me be trusted and be a good partner for women.

Nice Guy syndrome within digital nomads

And this is also invite for lots of guys who are listening now. And I’m going to be a little bit tough, especially for the digital nomads. I mean because what I see with digital nomads, man, they are. They are nice, they are open-minded, they are sweet. You know, they have some freedom in them, especially men. They are also, you know, like to be around with women and like to date and that’s fine. And I don’t say it’s super unhealthy.

But on the other hand, what I see now these days in the digital nomad life and again, when I was young, one of them, so I don’t want to say that I am perfect. Especially not, but I did the work. Hope that the guys who will find themselves in like, yeah, I always have enough girls, but in the end, they fall in love with me and then I, and then I don’t feel it. Then I go to the next one.

You know what I mean? Or they fell in love with a woman and the woman doesn’t want to be with you. The chance that you have some nice guys parts in you, it’s super big. And I hope you face it because it’s going to help you a lot, and you create also the world, you know. You create the world for more healthy relationships. And it’s very interesting, Piotrek. Because you read the book, and five months later, I had a talk with you. I said: Piotrek how are you? And you said: Dirk, I’m in a healthy relationship.

Piotrek: Yes!

How to establish boundaries to strive for healthy relationships?

Dirk: You faced the fact that you’re a sweet man, and that’s great. We need a sweet man in the world. But on the other hand, some moments it’s not good to be sweet. Yeah, good to be clear, it’s good to face the things. And it’s good to be. Yeah. More direct and say, like, okay, this is fine, but this is my need. Or I see this with you or no, this is not right. You know what I mean?

And then you create a healthy relationship and a woman feels way more safe, if you love woman. And since because you have a man who you can really trust, you know.

Piotrek: Yeah, That’s so true. And in five months, saw the effects of reading the book of, applying the knowledge that was there. And, yeah, I was thinking, especially in the digital nomad community, this notion that the relationships are always fleeting and then there was never a good match because, one person wants to go this way and the other one the other. And there is like, yeah, we are only short term.

Situationships in the digital nomad community

Dirk: In the digital nomad world, the most relationships are situationships, and they are all love affairs. I had that also in me that I want to be free. You know, that’s why we became nomads. And that’s not bad because in this freedom I wish some people were more free. But on the other hand is also right. We need to find also the commitment in ourselves to choose. You know, not everything. Always free. No! To put healthy borders for yourself because borders gives at the end the real freedom. This is what it is.

So a lot of digital nomads create situationships and it’s getting stronger and stronger because after this situationship you feel disappointed in the other or in yourself. And then it gets stronger and stronger. And you get more situationships and even stronger situationships are coming. Then you start to believe that this is the truth.

Or you start to believe that love is not for you, or you start to believe that healthy relationships are boring. That the relationships are unhealthy, or that sex life is always better with an unhealthy relationship. Or that you cannot be free, or whatever. You start to say this bullshit to yourself in your brain and then yeah, and then it’s a lot of the same.

Dirk’s own transition from situationships into a healthy relationship

And maybe, this is also interesting. I start to tell that I was having flexible living. Yeah, still I believe for 70% for what I was doing. But the 30% was I didn’t choose. I’m not choosing one woman, you know? I was not. It was difficult for me to choose.

And also (as a therapist) I could help people with depression. I could help people with anxiety, I could help people with this. And then one guy told me, Dirk, you need to choose. And I was feeling so scared because I was thinking, if I choose, then I don’t have this, this and this, you know? Yeah, it’s a kind of metaphor for the situationship.

The perceived loneliness of a digital nomad

Piotrek: Yeah, And definitely it touches the point of loneliness. Of this perceived loneliness. Because it’s not that people are like, in their bedrooms, and they cannot get out, and meet other people. It’s just this mental state of mind where you have so many of those situationships.

And then you start to doubt yourself about the relationships in general, and that’s very true what you said. I also had the same thing for many years when I was travelling and touring the world, enjoying meeting new people everywhere, I knew that something was missing. I kind of, felt it internally that every time I was trying to reach out, trying to be with someone, then everything was falling apart really quickly, because of many reasons.

But the one most important reason was just within me and like not understanding what I’m actually looking for, what emotional availability of other person I was looking for. And this is also very true. In my case, when I was talking with some very dear friends, and they use this phrase: you cannot, establish anything with a partner that is not emotional available. In my case this is how I perceive healthy relationships.

What can nomads do to address the loneliness of travel?

I’m curious. How do you feel? What would be the first step for someone who is listening and they feel, you know, they understand what we are talking about. But what should they do right now to, to go into the better direction? To get away from this loneliness

Dirk: Yeah. I a few things. What I want to reflect on it. Let me start with the last part and that is what someone can do. Like what is the most interesting? It’s a little bit black and white. What is that thing? What you always repeat and repeat and repeat. And it’s for example, in your professional life, in your love life, or in your travelling life. What is that? You know, and I, for example, to give my my own sample, I was doing a lot, you know, it was like so for me and if you listen carefully, for me, the chance was I need to get better in choosing, you know, and to create strength. That’s why I went also three times a week to the gym because I was a yoga teacher. So I was good in everything, flexible in making things flexible. And it was also my strength. But on the other hand, my body was weak. I was not strength. I was not able to push a heavy barrel, you know, with every week more cages on it, you know, And that’s the same like choosing one woman, you know. And so maybe not for everyone. The answer is here clear for them in my answer, but this is your own searching. What is that one thing that you do that will not lead to what you really want? And everyone can say, I’m no need for healthy relationship. Everyone wants a healthy relationship. Every every everyone. So let’s stay on this path. What you do all the time, repeat and repeat and repeat. Be very honest to yourself. What is that one thing that you always do? And when you find this one thing, then, Or you send me a message, I can you help you very well in this. But no, it’s it’s, it’s like then you need to find on a psychological way that’s on one hand, how can you transform this one thing, but also on a physical and practical way. For example, for me it was also travelling less choose to travel less.

One partner and I have amazing love life now I’m in a very stable relationship it was for me also to invest in a few friends because I had lots of friends everywhere. But you cannot be everywhere because then you feel lonely. You have many people around you, but deep inside you, you lay down in the bed of your coliving and deep inside you feel lonely because you have a lot. But at the end you have not that much. And focus on a few people. And of course, around that circle still you can be with them and be amazing. And it’s not that black and white, but just focus on some people, focus on the things that are really important for you. Build something, for example, a company or a love life or, you know, c, focus on the psychological part, but also the, physical and practical part for me is the gym. But for other people can maybe do yoga because they are so stuck and they are so stuck in this masculinity even if they’re. Yeah not man. And for them it’s good to go to aesthetic dance and to open up and to do more circles and to do yoga, you know. So but this is very depends on what is that thing, what brings you always not to this healthy relationship?

Piotrek:
Mm Once again, Dirk: I’m so glad that you’re talking out loud about those things, because I also noticed this so much in myself that this two years ago, a bit more I was weak. Yeah, I did a lot of sports, I did a lot of yoga and I was much more like flexible in that sense. But I didn’t have enough strength. Yeah, and only because I really invested into going to the gym and making my workouts consistent and also of diet. Y,like I am eating much more right now where I’m much more focused on proteins and even being in Asia and I eat heaps of tofu because I know that I cannot grow, I cannot be, you know, the vision that I have in my head that I want to be, a big man in a in a like a very positive sense of this world. And it is so interesting and that the two years ago, people would notice or they would not tell me that I look quite skinny. Yeah. And that like also like in mental sense I was not strong enough and now is like the new friends that I’m meeting in talking circle evenings they are like mom look like he’s really fit. Yeah. Like it. It really feels that there is something strong that the core is there not only in, in muscular sense. Yeah. Not only like all. You don’t have to be a Schwarzenegger.

Dirk:
Yeah, you’re high tall. But yeah, that could be a very, you know,and it’s about this. But on the other hand. A little bit about this. So it’s it’s not about having big, big arms, but it’s about if you find yourself as a man, I need sometimes more strength in my life.

Piotrek:
Mm

Dirk:
Then it’s also help to train your muscles.

Piotrek:
Yeah, think just to sum up this one argument, I would say that the the strength, t kind of physical strength it directly correlates to your strength in managing stressful situations those moments when your partner really needs you and they feel safe with you because have this, core. You can, protect your partner. And this is like so important for them.

Dirk:
This, this. And maybe it’s interesting because I know lots of women will listen to this podcast to and as a woman for what I see also in the digital nomad world and outside this digital nomads world as well, I think 85 of the woman I worked with the last five years They have a high amount of masculinity in them and then me wrong. The first part in everything you find yourself what’s it’s helpful or not helpful. Be always very sweet and very friendly to yourself. So we all perfect and it’s all good. But then after this. So you give yourself the love. Trust me, you’re good. And then after the love, you can give yourself nice feedback and think like, Hey, I’m this powerful woman and I have a good business all my work life and bottom up. And my life is cool because I see many people and guys feel attracted to me. But if you really listen to your heart, yo want a healthy relationship, you want a partner, and then

it’s helpful. Also, if you want this healthy, masculine man that you work, for example, on your healthy feminine energy we all have both yeah. and it’s helpful maybe to sometimes be less like, okay, I will organize this or I will catch the to man, you know, or, and to open up a little bit more and to be able to receive and to to be loved. And you know what I mean? that’s why I always be so open about myself that people feel like I’m not here. The guru tell you how it is. I’m fucking one of them. You know, I us with you guys, so.

Piotrek:
Yeah, I completely agree because, maybe it’s somehow connected to the Western view of like how the woman should be today. powerful, successful, and the masculinity is kind of hidden. Yeah. nobody is really labelling this, but it is. You can sense it. Like your partner can sense that sometimes the female is too much masculine and male partner is not enough. Or trying to be more than their partner. And then there’s some sort of, like, competition, like who is more masculine in the relationship, which also I think it’s not healthy.

Dirk:
Black and white. So I always want to give a disclaimer. For example, I’m with the amazing partners. He’s super successful. It’s a woman. She has a beautiful feminine part, but he also have a masculine part. I have a masculine part. I have also a nice feminine part. Sometimes it’s switch and that’s perfectly fine, you know? So it’s yeah, I’d like are men should be masculine, a woman should be super feminine and that’s the only way that’s.

Piotrek:
Yeah, yeah.

Dirk:
But the other hand is also true you know.

Piotrek:
So

Dirk:
Find a nuance but also make it the little bit black and white for yourself because in this black and white ness, it’s a lot of true.

Piotrek:
Mm Okay. Dirk:, I want to switch to the next thing because I know that we could talk for hours, just for this one topic that we started. But I think that is like very powerful to understand that the relationships, it’s not only about, men and women or romantic relationships between and in genders. It’s more about how do you create this vibe here, t bubble with your parents, with your kids, if you have them with your, extended family, if you’re siblings. For me, this is definitely the foundation. the healthy relationships that I have with my family allowed me to travel the world and be the digital nomads. So for me it’s super important. Even if I am like at the end of the world, I always try to call them at least once a week and be in touch with them and give them, this, affirmation that I’m always with them, thinking about them and speaking about parents. I know that this is a quite hard topic for you, and I asked you beforehand if you’re okay to talk about it because your mom has cancer and she has had for a long time. So what’s the current situation with her? And how do you deal with this relationship?

Dirk:
Yeah, Thank you for, um, being so careful in this. I respect that. And even if it’s painful, it’s a very good subject to talk about because I think many digital nomads or faced it or in the in the future sorry to say it because it’s yeah you know and so yeah my mum. Yeah. It’s, it’s the current situation. Is that um. That, the chances that she is dying in the next couple of months, it’s uh, it’s super high every two weeks in Netherlands for two weeks. So then I really stay with her and I can say many things about it. What’s, what’s what. I really, really be blessed for, for it. For example, yesterday I get a message. I’m now in Paris. Yesterday I got a message that she was in the hospital, that it was very bad. I will not give the details because. Yeah.

Piotrek:
Mm hmm.

Dirk:
But there was a situation where this was very bad, and. And if this was continue, then it was. Yeah. Then I think she was dead in two days. I’m very happy that they could fix this physiological thing. Well it gives her again some space for weeks or a few months you know. But there was a chance that this was not possible anymore. And then I realized like, shit. Like if she was dying tomorrow, for example. And then I felt I’m so, so happy that the last two years I make her one of my biggest priority. Because if I go back in the days and I lots of digital nomads, they’re going gonna feel what I’m going to say. Now if you’re travel and if you meet new people and if you in this flow, you’re in this flow. And even of course, you think about your parents and of course you think about your friends or some kids. I’m two times uncle and of course I get photo and but somehow you’re also a little bit disconnected because life move on and you know, it’s amazing to be in a cool or coliving or to meet people or to explore a new country or to have success with your company. And you stay in the flow. And I think two years ago it came back on my pets. Everyone I was speaking to said me the same. Dirk:, I heard your mom is sick. I had this. I met lots of people with the same experience and they said, I give you one advice. Spend time with her, please spend time with her, Go with her, listen to her, walk with her or whatever. Just spend time with her. And this was also the moment what previous, you know, the way of choosing it used to go a lot of times to Netherlands. It cost me whatever, lots of money. I don’t care because I choose to be more with her. And I’m so happy that I did because I hope she is still long with me. But if this not is the case, I think I will feel that I had so much amazing moments with her. And it’s not on the mountain or it was not on a great sea or whatever. It was just walking with her hands to the supermarket, 5 minutes walk with her market back with some empty glass boxes. have some talks about life and then whatever. And walk back. Y know, this, this moments. They are amazing. spent this time with her, and, um, Monday I go back to Netherlands, and I will.We cannot walk anymore. But Um, or she can not. hmm. Yeah. This moments, it’s, uh. And then you realize also and it’s very cliche, of course, when someone dies that you start to realize. But this I think this is also what helps me as a digital nomads. I am not sure if I count myself a digital nomad. I’m a very slow nomad, let’s say. But this, no matter me, you know, it’s. It’s always.

Piotrek:
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Dirk:
Also, and I believe, by the way, tha the healthy relationship is also based on being a little bit free, you know, not to talk about polyamory or open relationships or this type of, bullshit you know, not it’s not bullshit, but most of the time, no helpful. But, you know, so a little bit free is good. So I’m still a little bit this nomad. But on the other hand, yeah, I prioritize things and, yeah, I will give listening digital nomads that. So also really invest in uh in this choose a little bit some really people and invest and see them a lot too because it’s important.

Piotrek:
Yeah Like I feel this is very crucial, that the quality time is something that we cannot exchange into money or gifts or, you know, sending a picture because, being with someone and, doing even the mundane things like going to buy groceries is, so crucial. Especially, when they, wh they already feel, that they are saying goodbye. And, yeah, I’m really glad that you’re telling this. That you are open about, sharing this kind of approach. And, do feel that this is very healthy and that death is just part of life and, being, okay with it and, just spending time with someone is very simple, but not easy. And I think a lot of people forget about it.

Dirk:
yeah. And it’s. I know that you also do some trips with your dad and prioritize it. I was on many hikes with you and that I, i, i your like you don’t need to tell me, but I think you had a nice conversation on the phone and then you see my dad. You know, You’re an example of someone who prioritized that a lot.And maybe the last thing to say, And it’s also I said it with lots of love to my mom because I have so much respect for her.What I really like and I think this is where these tournaments are good and what’s she said It’s a Dutch sentence. How can I say she wants to die a alive? And that means like she choose the last year, many chemos for six seven years and then she choose to stop it because the chance of having so much side effects until the end of her life was bigger than the fact that she could have not pleasure, of course, but a goodbye. you know what I mean and I yeah this is nice about digital nomads. They also want to live, you know. So it’s very nice. They realize that they are alive and that they need to explore and but yeah, that’s also finding the balance in that. But yeah,I have lots of respect how my mom deals with it and how and this is the flexible part and I see that with my mom too, so. She accepts her fate. Is that the world? Yeah. She, positive fight with it. When there was an opening and when the opening closed, she accepted. And I think it’s super powerful if you can do that. So if you can change things, you do everything. What you can do. And if you cannot change it, then you embrace it and then you build flexibility and then you find the deeper values under this. And I think, very wise thing. What she do and what I take from her from this period.

Piotrek:
Yeah, Thank you once again, Dirk:, for sharing this and for, doing this. Because that’s the most important part is that you are actually spending the money, spending the time to be there with your mum and be a good example. Like a role model for others to prepare for the future and then try to do the same.

Dirk:
I’m not perfect. But I tried to be good. That’s, try to be helpful.

Piotrek:
Yes.

Piotrek:
So I would like to move to, more cheerful parts of our conversation, something that I am very proud that you, accomplished and that you are on your journey, building it up and really having a success. Because last thing, when we were speaking in our previous podcast, you were really focused on the flexible living as a project, and quickly you found that it’s better to focus on this one. Think about, relationshi and being a therapist for singles and couples. So I’m really curious what is your current business activity?

Dirk:
yeah, after that it went very quick. So, at the moment, as you said, I help, singles and couples to a healthy relationship. have a podcast and at the moment it’s nice because two days ago I received that we are in the top 15 top hundreds. Most listeners Relationship podcast in the Netherlands and a Michelle Obama and under me was Esther Burrell. So felt for a few moments like oh this is not bad you know.

Piotrek:
Yes.

Dirk:
I’m sorry for the people who are not speaking Dutch. it’s a Dutch podcast, it’s big on Spotify on YouTube at the moment. It’s, starting, but I think on YouTube maybe you can use some, um.

Piotrek:
you can use the subtitles. They are automatically translated into English. Yep.

Dirk:
So maybe you will put somewhere some notes in it. So yeah, the podcast going very well. I have amazing, guest like, very well-known entrepreneurs or well-known people. and it’s amazing to talk with them about, love life and, I work a lot to make this happen and to, give my clients the best they can and the results. So that’s very cool. I cannot, evidence based prove it. But it’s just happening. If I look to my clients, the last is the woman, a man who came as a single 75% ended up after half year or one year in a stable, healthy relationship, and they are still are so perfect. Again a disclaimer you know like I perfectly a proofed yet but yeah it’s working so that’s super cool But it’s also interesting maybe for the listener who is and the preneur oh my God When I start I choose to be an entrepreneur. Two things. I didn’t realize what it is to be an entrepreneur. I had no fucking idea. No, I have the idea that it was so tough. It’s so cool, but it’s also so tough. And this is interesting. So I was working for mental health care and every year I worked one day a week less and I was investing one day a week more in my company. I fully switched. So I stopped my nine five job and I was fully on my company. And when I make the decision in a half year, I learned more than in all of this years before, because then it went so quick and still deep in this journey. I’m still a beginner, I think in the entrepreneur world. But, wow, it’s, so schizophrenia, you know, it’s like one the best choice I ever made. And it’s like, why is this so tough?

Piotrek:
It is. It is. And it’s definitely not something for everyone. it does require and the stomach to digest just all of the issues and all of the misadventures or challenges that are happening. So if you could pinpoint what were actually the, the biggest challenges for you in this entrepreneurial journey.

Dirk:
You had the biggest challenge in the last years in my journey as I enter Preneur, for example, if you start as a coach or therapist or whatever, you’re going to face rejection a lot. You know, you’re going to face rejection a lot. And in general, as an entrepreneur and yeah, this is let me say this if you want to grow as a human, just start a life relationship or a company, you know, build something in.

Piotrek:
That.

Dirk:
affects. So many things. what happens a lot in love relationships is how you deal with rejection and that’s also what happened in a company So for me it was a a tough part how to deal with rejection, how to deal with things, what is going wrong? I knew example I invest a lot in a professional podcast studio like a lot of money because I thought my podcast went very well and I had big a guest in the Netherlands and for example, my is on Instagram went from from 300 views to 40 k, 50 k views. Wow, this is working. So I thought this is the right step to invest a lot of money in the best podcast studio you can get. Like it’s ultra HD and it’s the big guys out there. And I thought, okay.

Piotrek:
Excel.

Dirk:
and what would happened? I invite of course, even bigger guest and all the guest said no or they said yes. And at the end there were three woman I invite and all the three at the end last minute they were sick or were not able to come or whatever. And and I realize it’s a point that the guy I was working from the studio, he he saw that I was so upset he saw that I was so upset. And like a little boy he said to me, like a dad to a little boy. He said to me, Dirk:, I will pick you up from the train station, because I came from Paris. I booked a hotel, And I thought, yeah, you know, I put also my mindset, right, because the big guests were coming. So I thought, I want a good sleep. So I had a good hotel and I was ready. They all canceled. And then he said, I pick you up from the station, come to the studio, and yeah, one guest was coming and yeah, we, yeah, we make it’s a good day. You know, he was really taking care of me. And it’s very interesting because I’m 34 and he was 21

And then this there was one guest coming. It was a couple. It was amazing. Podcast. What a amazing couple. What, what a great she’s entrepreneur. And the fact that she was there helped me so much. The fact that he was taking me from the train helped me so much that

I let go of everything. I thought, okay, I’m just going to make a nice conversation with this couple because maybe my podcast is over, maybe my business is over,maybe whatever, you know? So what can I do? Yeah, I just make I going to meet a couple and let’s have a human connection and a nice conversation and from there the magic explodes and from there and, you know, and now, the guests are fully booked till September. You know, I have to be honest. Too much guest who wants to go. I’m going everywhere. This moments that you realize I said to Julian, my partner, I said, on one hand, I wish someone tells me what to be an entrepreneur was, a on the other hand, I’m so happy that no one told me, you know, and now I’m in rollercoaster and I know myself. If I make the choice to step into a rollercoaster, I’m not the guy who at the end say, Oh, please, can I go out? You know, I’m not this person. So now I’m in this looping, right? I’m happy I did and I’m happy.

Piotrek:
The.

Dirk:
Old me before.

Piotrek:
But it’s nice.

Dirk:
Why I was not in Tenerife three days working for mental health care. Close my laptop, give the world the best. B then at four, close my laptop jumping. I’m doing nice things with you. Four days, weekend to week.

Piotrek:
Mm hmm.

Dirk:
Why? I don’t have this life anymore.

Piotrek:
So nice. Yeah. you never know how the journey will, unfo in front of you. Because, honestly, the entrepreneurial journey, for me, it’s very similar to, like, being a digital nomad because you are opening yourself to a lot of possibilities and you maybe have some, idea. Yeah, like a destination or I want to go there,but you don’t know who you will meet. while flying or once you are there, especially if it’s a completely new culture or a country, you have to re learn everything and embrace new weirdness of the situation. Yeah, I guess. Oh, I’m so glad That You’re enjoying this right. And it’s not easy as I can hear. So, this decision that you told me, that you switched from working for the healthcare, being an employee, and now you are on your own, just running your own business. Thi happened in the beginning of this year, 2024.

Dirk:
Yeah, I fully switched. But at that time I was working so less so yeah, it was already happening for years. But the real last click it was Tenerife a relief. November 2023. Ouch me very bad on the couch. And she said, But Dirk:, I said, But Judith did. Do you understand what’s going on with me right now? Like I feel there is something why this is all happening. And we had some time. And then she said yes, I think you need to stop your mental health care job because it’s too much, it’s craziness. And then I thought, You’re right.

Piotrek:
And then I did it.

Dirk:
I called my mom. I said, Mom I going to quit. my job fell my dad. So you will be shocked, but we will work on it.

Piotrek:
Mm hmm.

Dirk:
Yes. He said, Dirk:, I think you make a right. And then I called my business coach at that time, I said, That’s good. And I called the secretary of my boss at that time. Schedule me a call for tomorrow or the week after Monday. The first first point’s. Important. I said yes. yeah. And then I did what I need to do. But it’s not that I am this impulsive. I’m the opposite of being stupid, is thinking already and talking already for a long time. when life shows you very clear. And now it’s the moment. Then let’s go.

Piotrek:
in terms of having enough of money. Buffer Yeah. Or like, just being sure that you have enough of your clients to actually work with them here for the next couple of months. And, and you can afford, you know, going to see your mom and being with your girlfriends in Paris. did you actually had some calculations that or I need to earn this much to be sure that I can, quit my job.

Dirk:
Yeah it’s a good question. Yes. was listening to a podcast of vision for Vishen Lakhiani and from Mind Valley Judith. and me, we went also to the Tallin, to the Mine Valley University event, and Gary was telling the best way to start a business is start as a situs sole because you don’t feel, yeah, all this pressure because look on your Instagram you can see which coaches has money problems because you feel it in every they need you as a client. There is such a big need. It’s same in love, you know, if you are so insecure and you need love, the healthy people will feel and will not feel attractive to you, you know? follow his advice as a side hustle. And at that time, I had a business coach and he was telling me, Dirk:, if you ever make a switch, just have half your salary on your account. You know that you can make a switch over half your salary on your account, and that’s the right moment to, switch. And a Vishen, Lakhiani he said, when for the first month you earn that amount of money that you really think,okay , this is really the goal for the next year. Mm hmm. And, uh, yeah, this is what, uh, what I did.

Piotrek:
nice. It’s so good to, hear that you are not one of those, jumping headfirst into the shallow waters type of person where you’re, like, hustling and, being really aggressive. Yeah, like with marketing, lik,Oh , you are my client and you are my client and, like, give me money. I think the Internet is filled with this kind of gurus or businessmen because I don’t know, maybe because of what American culture is focusing on those, or maybe because they are louder than calmer people and more quiet and more nicer people like you. And I think it is very important to also hear from people like you to know that the business can grow and can be fulfilling not only in terms of money, but also in terms of what you really want to do in life. it’s not that someone told you like, oh, you have to go and make your own, practice no, it happened, year after year. I do remember when we were recording the previous podcast, you were already mentioning that you have this one or two days a week that you are really working on your project. You really finding what is the perfect match. so I’m still curious, did you have maybe one of those clients or one of those moments, maybe the popularity of your podcast, as you said with the reels, did you really feel that oh, okay, this is the sign ready to go and, explore more?

Dirk:
Yeah, yeah, there were before I made the choice already some signs, for example, I think it was 2023. So I think it’s now more than one year ago.

Piotrek:
Mm hmm.

Dirk:
I had so many clients. So that means I was seeing in mental health care, I think 18 people a months are week My own company. I also saw around 16 or 17.

Piotrek:
Increase.

Dirk:
You know, I was so full, so my business was so full that I was working six days a week from eight till nine. Only helping people. And that was actually maybe a point that I was ready for the switch. But at time I didn’t.

Piotrek:
Mm.

Dirk:
I was not ready. So there were a few things, and then, and it’s very interesting because of course it’s interesting. My first clients, he still with me it’s amazing. but yeah, in the past lots of clients came and go I’m on one hand a mentor for people I really believe in mentor and coaches. You heard me saying I had business coach in my life, I had therapists in my life. I was just looking to successful people in love and in business and they all have mentors and coaching this, you know, So it’s healthy to work with someone half year or three months and it’s healthy to have someone for a few years, but it’s also healthy to switch after a few years.

Dirk:
Yes.

Piotrek:
to have the growth. All the time and seek the proper people that can help you at the proper time.

Dirk:
Maybe. It’s interesting if coaches are listening because. The internet is so full of people who are super good in selling. But value is terribly bed I was the opposite I was super bad and selling I’m very experienced in transformed people’s life you know doing 15 years and at the moment I’m finding this balance because I was listening to a very interesting podcast of a very good hypnotherapist. It’s a super good and a preneur. An he said, If you are not very good in the selling and in in neuromarketing, then you cannot help people He said this if you have a person in front of you with the problem and you are super, super sure that you are one of the best to solve this problem, it’s a shame if you don’t sell them something. only help them if you convince them that you have the answer. If you feel you don’t have the answer, then of course say, I’m not the right person for you. I always follow this path. But I was not good in selling and that’s why it was difficult. And when I saw this, I found a balance of giving people the best value you can give and transform their life. And on the other hand, being good as an entrepreneur to sell because your business will die if you don’t sell, you can be the best therapist of the world. But if people are not convinced that you are, and where is all the money and all the people in going to the people who are not good in their jobs, yo know?

Piotrek:
So yes, all.

Dirk:
The people in the world to favor become good in selling because then you give people good. And when you are not good in your job, stop selling work on your skills.

Piotrek:
Mm Nice. this is so important that the Internet already reached this level where it’s so easy to find answers. Or to find whatever product that will satisfy my needs. But is it actually quality enough to actually know, address my. deep feelings, my deep needs, especially when we are talking about something. that is not, p in a box that like, oh, if I’m hungry, it’s easy to order food or buy it in an online groceries. Bu when I’m having some, you know, dark thoughts or depression, or like issues with my relationships, I cannot even name it. Yeah. it’s so hard for me to where do I start with the whole mess that is happening in my life? So, in your case, what is the best selling channel? what is the way you connect with your clients? And then they find you?

Dirk:
what? I really believe in it and what it’s working a lot for my company is the podcast because what I love is to have conversations with people, what.

Piotrek:
They.

Dirk:
Appreciate it and what I love to and what I am passionate about. It is have real conversations with real people What we are doing right now, you know? That’s what I like. And it’s also what we all like because we want real honest, we want real stories. We want that. Not that you as a only a professional like yeah, this is what’s working from the books. No. You want to hear like sometimes I’m laying down in bed and I feel fucking lonely. And then you think, Oh, thank God there are more people feeling like this, you know, you know, wanting to do this. I feel so rejected. And then you think,Oh , shit, Thanks. I’ not the only one. Yeah. So you want real people. And the podcast is a perfect platform to have real conversations

Piotrek:
So.

Dirk:
99% of the clients who work with me, they know me for my podcast and they start to know me because they and now the rules are different. Normally I’m the Piotrek:, you know, I ask the people, some things, you know, so now it was it way. But then she said Oh Dirk: you’re a friendly man but you are there to tell, you know, or whatever clients think about me, they start to know me in this podcast and, then they become also trusted in me. And then they see me also working because I, I talk with the people like, why is this happened to you in the past, this bad experience, or why you always in situation ships or whatever, and then we find the clue for it and then they think, Oh yeah, this,is exactly what I want. And then people can have this is also for the listeners here and people can always have a free advice, go with me. So in half an hour. And it’s really true. And sometimes it’s 35 or 40 minutes, but in half an hour we always find that the reason, the one thing what is happening in your love life and I make for you a plan how you can, turn that into more relationship success. You can book this call with me. And that’s what people do after this. podcast. And then you have different people. You have people who are not ready for it. So I tell them what I think, and yeah, they are not really ready for it, you know? S they know you have people, they are very ready for it and they, they click and they transform their life and it goes better. And you have people, the realize, yeah, I just need some help. And it because it’s it’s complex what it is and then yeah some people they yeah they did trust me As their therapist or mentor and then we we both create success and yeah I think this is working for me.

Piotrek:
Perfect. Yea, It’s so good to hear that this channel. That podcast is the way to connect with people, is the way to give the glimpse of who you are. I also love to listen to so many people that I respect, that they learn from and the conversation type of podcast is definitely my favorite, where you can really spend the quality time with two people, sometimes more. But the idea is that okay, they have some dynamic, they have some interesting relationship, and then all of them have something interesting to say. Yeah, it’s not really like this, TV interview style where the journalist is somewhere behind the camera and then the guest, the celebrity is just shining is like, Yeah, I’m so great and blah, blah, blah. And then after the each episode is recorded, it is uploaded to your YouTube, to your Spotify, and then you work with some agency that helps you to cut it into Instagram reels and some other materials. Could you tell a bit more it works? And do you also pay for some Facebook ads? to promote this kind of content?

Dirk:
Yeah, I do everything organic, so all my things is organic marketing yeah, the company makes it reals, but I choose the real because you have also now a platform. Say you put Opus a I will make for you the reels, but I say I go very far. So you give you two silver but did not give you the human gold And that if you focus on your Instagram and you seeing the guest or me quotes are very human quote like as I said, like I feel so rejected when this partner say to me, this is what people want to hear because this is value for them and I is still not good enough. to see this human gold. So I choose the stamps, you know. a very good friend of mine, works for this company. So he added for me and then he sent it to me like, What do you think? And it’s very nice. It’s important. I’m very focused on it. Before I did everything myself, you know, also the editing and.

Piotrek:
Mm hmm.

Dirk:
It was not possible, I have amazing people doing it, and I choose the reals. It’s very important.

Piotrek:
Mm hmm. And then the moment someone is interested, do you direct them to your, links, your Instagram profile to, schedule the conversation? Or do you also engage with Instagram messages to, stay in touch and you also do this on your own, or do you have some people to help you?

Dirk:
Yeah , no, I do everything myself. It’s a lot of work, so I hope I can still do it myself for a long time. if people go to the link book their own, I’ve Calendly only link so people book their own call with me try I always to have enough spots available sometimes is a challenge because yeah, the clients but I try to be available enough and Yeah and some people sent me a DM like Hey Dirk:. I give always advice to people. I get lots of message on Instagram. I always give advice like, Hey, a days, did you read this book? Did you try this? And if I think, okay, what’s a lot of times is happening, like a book is good, but some people clicked. But with many people it’s, it’s not clicking. And then I say, but hey, if you want, y can always get to with me. I can look with you, you know, if I believe that, I can help them. Yo know, so it’s always been very, very, very honest in your marketing, it’s the best because I only want to have happy clients. And if I don’t think I can make them happy clients, I will tell them. or if I believe when they fully can do it themselves, I will tell them to.

Piotrek:
Yeah, building this trust with a therapist is, I think, the most important part here. Because if someone is not really convinced that they want to work with you, whatever marketing and sales techniques you would try to apply, in the end, they won’t be happy. They won’t be referring other people or they won’t be feeling like they spend, the money for a good service. So yeah, it’s so vital, to focus on the clients that really want to be your clients and then, to build the relationship. Long term.

Dirk:
Yeah. Yo need to be ready for it. For example, it’s also a money mindset thing and this is sad to see. I don’t know if it’s a Dutch thing, but I see so many people, I can help them so well and they are so convinced about it. But when the money come they are like crashing, you know. And it’s I had it when I was very as well. As you hear in this podcast, I invest a lot in myself. And that’s the interesting part. Even if you invest in your love life, it, brings you back also moneywise, you know what I mean? So it’s always like this. You invest, you get something in return. But this is sadly what people don’t see. And that’s why people stay also stuck in their life, stuck in their love life, stuck in their entrepreneur journey, stuck in their whatever because they freaked out about money and then it’s telling them it’s better not to do it, you know? And then, yeah, to see your circle is around. You know why I have clients who never want to pay me. Well, yeah, because you don’t invest in a business. I have a few business coaches. I pay them good money, it’s exactly why I bring my own patterns, why I can attract the right clients, you know?

Piotrek:
Yeah. So maybe before they can afford the services, they should, also get to some, you know, business coach. And then if they, have enough money, t they can,

Dirk:
Don’t go to a business coach if you want to work on love. just be aware this is happening, you know, And I’m not the super expensive coach. Oh. but yeah, what,I want to give to people. If you want to invest, for example, in your love life or in a company or whatever just realize that this investment is for you. And if you have a right person in front of you, you get a ten times in return and trust the process. You know.

Piotrek:
Yeah. of course. I was just joking about that someone had to invest first to, come back to you once they have enough so glad that you step. Yeah. That you, made this progress and you moved up because I remember our previous conversations where you were saying yeah like one of the unlocks is understanding how valuable I am for other people. if you want to be the cheapest possible coach on the market, you will never win it because there will be always someone who can offer, cheaper things. Or is an AI I just pretending to be a human? Yeah. And it’s such a bad way to trying to be, something that this unattainable, unsustainable and it’s much better for ourselves to grow and for others. Yeah. For our clients that want to, feel fulfilled after, having the service that they are growing with you and they’re holding their issues.

Dirk:
Yeah. And at the end, it’s not about money, it’s about, are you really ready to give this to yourself? And then everything is possible. You will see f example, there are amazing stories of big entrepreneurs that someone with no money get coached by this big at the Preneur Why because give something in return. I know a very famous entrepreneur in the Netherlands, and he said I was just ringing his bell in front of his door. I had no money and I told him, I can give you the next half year, I can edit your videos,I can go with you to film all your concerts, to film events. I do everything I do with you I just wants to be close to you because I believe that’s the only way I become a big entrepreneur. I wish I could be your coaching of whatever a year, but I cannot. But this I can afford. And this young guy at that time, I think it was 17 or 18, the big entrepreneurs said, yes, and this young guy was years later my first business coach, you know, and he won and He teached me all the right things because this how he became this good, he was working a half year for a big entrepreneur. And in return he get all this amazing thing. So, so money is is not the problem for the most of the people. If you touch a therapist from the heart and you give something amazing back in return, he will work for you.

Dirk:
Yes.

Piotrek:
There are so many different ways, which again, touches just into the digital journey where, travelling far away. Doesn’t it mean that you have to afford, the business class in, a plane, Sometimes you can win a ticket pick it or someone will give it to you or you will sign up for some volunteering and they will pay for it to, get you to Africa or some other places in like Latin America. And then you can have your, amazing journey just because you made a decision that you want to help. some people or you want to travel and the money is just one of the ways to get what you want.

Piotrek:
Yeah I.

Dirk:
Fully agree.

Piotrek:
Could you tell me more about the clients, about the people who are working with you? You mentioned a bit earlier that most of the woman, for example, they would have those, strong elements of masculinity. And that would be one of the causes for issues, their relationships. But in general, would you actually work more with women or do you also have a lot of men, trying to their problems?

Dirk:
Yeah. A It’s a good question.In the early days it was more woman. Now it get more mixed like let’s say, the overall thing is that most of the people come to me, they have kind of ambitiousness in them. You know, they want to improve, they are not happy, they want to improve. So this is the thing they all have. Then I work with couples, mostly couples who get stuck in their relationship, you know, like. Stuck in fights of a bad sex or whatever they get, they get stuck. They come to me formed a singles it’s men woman for example with men I see or the men where we talked about more like, yeah, more the nice guys, they are amazing, you know, like they’re amazing, sweet guys, but they need to learn a little bit to be a little more tough sometimes. also the opposite. Guys who yeah, who, who need to invest a little bit more in how to be more gentle or how to be more open for feelings and emotions, you know. So they come to me and with the woman I mostly see or woman who are too sweet and they have always this narcissistic or toxic relationships, you know, so or of themselves or on the other hand, they are quite, yeah, strong and independent. It’s more difficult for them to open for love and everything in between. I see so many different type of people, but it’s what I see a lot.

Piotrek:
And in terms of singles they also see some sort of a pattern that there are more single people trying to, get help with you because of, the loneliness or the digital nomad movement and then a lot of people falling into some loneliness trap.

Dirk:
see at the moment a little bit more singles than couples and. a couple is sometimes mostly not too late, but a little bit late. I just get this morning a message and he said ah Dirk: amazing and it’s so great your content thank you for making it because I wish it was earlier because now my love life is over with her But also a woman sent me a message like, hey, I got pregnant and we went to a good therapist before because we heard all our couples around us that their love life was ruined after the baby. So we thought, Let’s let’s be clever. You know? It was like the investment. Because he said, it’s like investing early into Bitcoin, you know, don’t wait. I want to be it before. Because he said, after kids, you get lots of people get drama. Then maybe you need to work one year with the love therapist or half year with someone in prevention. helped us a lot, you know, So, this audience,it’s good to also, have them more and what I see now these days, it’s very normal to, invest in lots of things, for example, in business coaching or entrepreneurship or in whatever. It’s very normal. But to invest in love, it’s still, it’s still not really common. And it’s, it’s really stupid, to be honest, because and not because it’s my business. But if what I invest the most in in my life, i in my personal love life. a little bit because it was needed, b also because, for example, when I met Judith and, you know, because you were there at that time, I thought, Wow, I meet such amazing woman. I want that’s none of my patterns. We all have parents. None of my parents will block the way that I have a amazing love life at her. So I told my old therapist, I said, I’m fine. No worries. But can we have a few conversations? Because I met Amazing woman. I think we can have a great relationship. But you know me sometimes my parents, sometimes I call with you. I think I can. I can work on them and. Then I do everything to make this happen,

Piotrek:
Yeah, The prevention. It’s such a strong thing. Whenever we are talking about health and like, medical intervention it’s always cheaper to prepare yourself. Tha to fix and go for a surgery and try to stitch something because it’s already broken, already so damaged that you will have a very long time to recover. But if you know that things will happen, If you know that the baby is coming, it’s so much better to just prepare yourself and prepared partner and the both of you t know how to address it and how to still be in this intimate and very important love life together than just, after a year or two, find ourselves in trouble, oh, my god, do I still love him? How do I still love her? And like, it’s so bad when people forget about it that they can prepare it.

Piotrek:
Yeah.

Dirk:
Fully, fu. I fully agree. So you can integrate it in your relationship as well, you know, to keep it good.

Piotrek:
So

Piotrek:
Yeah, for sure. that’s, part of the benefit of having this conversations with you and recording the podcast like that, I’m fully concentrated and integrated in our conversation here and our relationship that I’m learning a lot while, recording and they want to spread this knowledge or spread this, energy and this vibe to other people who are listening. and thi is definitely one of the best ways for me to learn. have to be the interaction because just reading a book or listening to the podcast is very passive. it can just fly with one year and then like out there with another one.

Piotrek:
and you.

Dirk:
Want to work. I always said, What is the power of a good therapist? It’s the work, you know, for example, yesterday I had a call with one of my clients and then I saw she was so touched by something I said, you know, and it’s my masculinity. I just said, What? Said, you know. She was touched. And then she gets silence. And then I thought, I’m not going to say anything because I can say like, Oh, what’s there with? You. But it’s it’s for her to learn that if something get touched that she tell like, hey, I’m sorry, but. Oh, no, no, not sorry. Like, hey, I feel that’s touching. My partner. So I said nothing and I continue And then moment she said, Ah, Dere, I need to tell you something. I said, Oh, what you need to tell. And she said, Yeah, what you’re seeing right now, I feel it’s, touching and it reminds me of my dad’s struggle, blah blah. And that’s great because then you can work with it. This is exactly what you want. this coaching or therapy, it’s a safe space where you can do this kind of things.

Piotrek:
Mm.

Dirk:
Amazing. And then after she sent me a WhatsApp like, Wow, Der, this was such an amazing call because for the first time in my life I really said to a man like, Hey, this feels not right for me, you know?And that’s, that’s, that’s what you create. And it’s not that I say something really on purpose to hurt you and yeah, but I’m not afraid to go for it, you know, to be with a human and let’s go for it. Let’s see what happens? And then when something happened, th you work with it because it’s, it’s always safe and it’s always protected. And I’m always in my role in this case, you know, So then you create and that’s also what you said, like of course, reading a book, it’s interesting, but it’s also easy to avoid. But when you’re in front of someone and that’s also what you said, what I like about the podcast. Yeah, if you ask someone a question or you start a conversation,you go, you know, you cannot escape. And that’s that’s that’s very good and effective for learning.

Piotrek:
Oh, yes, Recognising those moments. When you are touched or triggered. And then what would I do with it. how do I work with this, thing that is now inside me and, then we can grow from it. We can grow from,this, moment of truth. I think people will be asking that because that’s definitely something we were covering a bit in our previous episode. you are focusing on Dutch clients because that’s your native language and working primarily with Dutch people from wherever they are. do you do conversations and therapy in English too?

Dirk:
Yeah I do. I do. So sometimes I make an exception

Dirk:
exceptions here.

Dirk:
Sometimes people send me messaging. I think, yeah, I am going to help them. And, so, yes, I do. I also have now Belgium clients because they speak Dutch, you know, so the Flemish grow now. But. But yes, I do. I do. So if. Feel like, hey, this can be helpful for me. Just book a call and then, or send me a message that. Yeah, so I do.

Dirk:
Perfect.

Piotrek:
Yeah. So, just for anyone listening, if you are interested after this conversation, to dive deep able to, learn more from Dirk: and to work on the issues regarding the relationships, then we will be giving the link directly where you can schedule call and then see, if this is for you of this is the thing to help with your love life and, for the last part of our conversation, I wanted to come back to the adventures this, travelling lifestyle, digital nomad journey because it’s still happening. Maybe it’s a bit slower, maybe it’s more mindful. having a time for important people in your life. But, it also changed. Yes. Since we were talking last time. So I’m really interested in this set up that you currently have that you are spending a lot of time in your apartment in Paris with your girlfriend, but you also have a house in the Netherlands, and you also have an apartment in Tenerife. So how do you, find yourself in all of those places?

Dirk:
the officially base is in Netherlands. So of course I’m there a lot, m love base, I call it the emotional real base is in France. She is a Parisian. She he works for American, San Francisco Company. But, their office is still in in Paris. She go EMEA. So it’s very nice she Yes he go from Paris really to lead teams in the whole of Europe so I’m super proud of her right still the basis in Paris so I’m be there a lot. yeah we met uh, Piotrek: Czech. I also met my partner in Tenerife. We fell in love and on day two on, Bollullo beach. we went over with my scooter. I,I said, uh, there is a villa if you look right up there. It’s amazing house. I said, Judith. She said yes. I said, One day we buy to get our house and Tenerife we went Day two, e?it . And then she looked at me. She said, Yeah, why not? I think, two years later, we, got the key of her apartment in Tenerife. And that’s.

Piotrek:
Excellent.

Dirk:
believe me, really, I still don’t know how we did it, but we did it. And if you said this two years ago, even if I said it myself, I thought. It was never possible. But we just believed in it. And we did everything and we worked super hard and we were double focused. And it was also a crazy time like, I remember I was in Chateau coliving, all the digital nomads they know this place amazing place to go there for sure. we were there and then working on my company, and she was working and we did other things and then it was like, Oh shit, now we need to fly to Tenerife to sign because it was in a hurry and it was a very also very cool, like this quickness and this digital nomad craziness it. yeah, that was also very nice.

Piotrek:
Okay.

Dirk:
what I do now is especially now with my mom, it’s two weeks, Paris, two weeks Netherlands, b this is interesting, the situation and the context ask me to do this so that’s not Tenerife if no other things, this is what they do. and after will see but Normally it’s nice to have a nice balance between this three. And of course sometimes we do another trip like we went, we said to each other, we need more Italy in our life. So every year but Italy. Nice weeks ago because it was so much also with my mom and we escaped for one weekend to a Napoli. We went there already, b we just came for, for Italy, you know, Yeah. think at the moment, Judith to travel more than me because. Yeah. Besides the Dutch trips to other countries for work. But, yeah, it’s fun. You Know I still like and you see it maybe on my face. I still like the, the freedom part as well. It’s. It’s a good balance.

Piotrek:
Yeah,And honestly, you were saying earlier that you are not sure if you are still a digital nomad. And in my perspective, th label, Digital Nomad, can be used by anyone, anywhere. It not something that you have to earn or that you have to have, enough of your miles, and be somewhere in the world all the time. It’s like camping. Yeah, like a verb. It’s an activity that you, live, by doing and just going to places and working remotely and other parts of your life can, be connected to it. And you don’t have to do it all the time also. Yeah, it’s not something that you 24 seven your whole life and once you start you can stop. N it’s just a think and it’s nice that a lot of people are focused on it. I’m definitely one those people who is very interested in this cultural and social and other aspects of this life. That’s why we are touching on important elements like here we are talking a lot about relationships, about, dealing with tough things because they are all connected. Yeah, it’s something you cannot escape from and freedom the notion and the value of freedom, which is also super important for me. It’s something that we carry. Yeah. wherever I go, it’s still with me and it doesn’t matter how long I’m staying in one place, currently, because of my love life, because of my girlfriend, I am spending quite a lot of time in Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia and they like it. I’m embracing it. Yeah. So let’s see how it goes further to where I will be, where, we will travel together. But it’s so yeah, that we can do this wherever we are. and getting back your place as your bases, the apartment in Tenerife, if you are renting it’s, your putting it on Airbnb or some other place places.

Dirk:
Just for us.

Piotrek:
Okay. So you are keeping for at the moment you are back on the island.

Dirk:
Yeah, of course. My, sister went once and, you know, but,

Piotrek:
You know.

Dirk:
no, Airbnb, no booking.

Piotrek:
Okay . And there one in the Netherlands. t also some sort of, investment

Dirk:
where I lived for a long time. and,I rent it to a amazing family like this. it’s interesting because years six years ago, I was walking the Camino Santiago, and I was living with the four kg, my back for many weeks, and then I came back to this house and I was crying in front and I thought, what I do with this house. And then I start to to realize, like, I can make people happy with it, you know? they rent it for me and everyone is happy.

Piotrek:
And this is also one of the ways to enable you to be more remote or to be more open to other people and meeting them while you are traveling. And then you never know how those connections can actually result in some future things. The one last thing that I’m quite curious about, beca you are based in Paris or as you are saying, your love base is there. The Summer Olympics in Paris are happening this year. So how the life looks like there are how is your life is it, affected because of the constructions or some other, restrictions.

Dirk:
Yeah, it’s a nice question. Paris is a big city for me, the biggest city I ever lived, it’s like 6 million or something. and, but yeah, the Olympic Games. It’s, yeah, I feel, I feel also some tension, you know, the will be so many people they’re afraid of attacks and Yeah, I’m, I feel some tension, to be honest, it’s amazing we, we going to see a match at super cool going to see voleyball it’s like a final or something. I’m very happy to do it. Then we, will go. Yeah It will be will be fun. I never watched anything, in real life. What? That is so. That nice. Them close to us. there is a big fan zone, and there is a the Dutch house, you know, so I think a drunk Dutch people walk there or something. A metro, you see already two signs and yeah, you see already the things, But Yeah. It’s not that’s already super alive, you know. think it will come but slowly you. See it coming. The prices are going up, you know.

Piotrek:
yeah, of course. they have to somehow. Now get back all of the money from all the tourists around the world will be coming to Paris. for me, the most interesting is the opening and the closing ceremony, because it’s usually, very colorful and, spectacu. All of those, artists singing or dancing and doing some amazing animations and special effects. Are you also going to either opening or closing ceremony.

Dirk:
On, uh, this is not on the, list there will be so many people. it’s not that I’m scared of something,but I think it’s okay. I think it’s okay.

Piotrek:
It’s better to just be at your apartment

Dirk:
Previous time, as I said, I was playing in a punk band. We went as a visitor, but also as a band to big, big festivals. And, yeah, it’s a lot, you know, It’s a lot. And, yeah, I feel sometimes a little bit stuck, you know, because it and I asked my whole podcast with you, it’s like, it’s good to commit and to learn to commit. And then my commitment is to stand there the whole day waiting and waiting and waiting and then see a thing. And then it takes 3 hours to, to get out. And I think not it’s,it’s okay.

Piotrek::
Yes. Thos big events, have their own rules. How everything works and how people are standing in queues.And so yeah, it a lot in terms of mental weights or just like physical also thing.

Dirk::
So

Dirk:
I didn’t choose this commitment.

Piotrek:
Okay . Thank you very much, Dirk:. I so glad that we had a chance to record this second episode together to dive deep into the relationships, as this crucial and vital element for all of us. Regardless if you are digital nomads the what’s, if you are single, if you are in relationships already, we have to take care of them. We have to foster them. We have to spend the quality time with our partners, with our parents with our siblings, with our good friends. So I’m really, really happy that’s We did it today together.

Dirk:
Thank you so much, Piotrek:. You’re amazing human being. I want to thank you for having me again here. Let’s say in two years. Let’s do it again. if you’re in for it. But, sure or the most is to see you, of course, in real life and to meet your new partner. I’ very happy for you. And it’s. It’s. It’s the results. Thank you. You know, the right things work on the right things our way, you know? So I’m very happy for you. no surprise about that as well.

Piotrek:
Mm Thank you very much, Dirk:. And see you soon.

Dirk:
Yeah. Bijou, huh?

Piotrek:
Bijou.