Lorenzo’s journey from a traditional corporate career to embracing life as a sailing slowmad with his family is both inspiring and adventurous. After a successful career in electrical engineering, including stints in Silicon Valley and France, Lorenzo and his wife, Yuko, decided to pursue a dream of living on a boat, driven by their love of exploring new cultures. Initially planned as a retirement project, they fast-tracked the decision due to Lorenzo’s growing dissatisfaction with corporate life. They purchased a Lagoon 440 catamaran and began their journey, opting for a slower pace of travel, allowing their children to attend local schools while exploring new destinations during the summer.

Nerd on Tour Podcast with Lorenzo Simonini

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What is Lorenzo’s zero calorie Zen Pasta?

Lorenzo’s Zero Calorie Zen Pasta company is a business venture that focuses on creating and marketing a unique type of pasta with zero calories. The company produces pasta made from konjac flour, a plant-based ingredient known for being extremely low in calories and high in fiber. This makes Zen Pasta a popular choice among those looking for a guilt-free, low-calorie alternative to traditional pasta, particularly for individuals on weight-loss journeys or those following specific dietary restrictions like keto or low-carb diets. Zen Pasta offers a solution for people who love pasta but want to avoid the high calorie content typically found in regular wheat-based varieties.

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Podcast notes

• Podcast Setting: The interview takes place on a boat during a passage from Tenerife to Gibraltar, adding an authentic ambiance with background sounds of the engine and wind.
• Lorenzo’s Background: Lorenzo grew up in Verona, Italy, and while he has a deep appreciation for his hometown and Italian culture, he always had a passion for exploring the world.
• Career Beginnings in Engineering: Lorenzo was fascinated by science from an early age, particularly physics, but chose electrical engineering for its practicality and job prospects. He studied in Milan and later worked for Terabyte, an American company that makes semiconductor testing equipment.
• International Career: His engineering career led him to work in Milan, Silicon Valley, and eventually back to Italy and France, where he took on leadership roles. In France, during the 2008 economic crisis, he was asked to lead a consolidated office, marking another significant career shift.
• Personal Life: Lorenzo met his wife, Yuko, in California. She is Japanese, and together they have two children. Their multilingual household speaks English, Japanese, and Italian.
• Transition to Sailing Life: Lorenzo and his wife wanted to explore new cultures, but disliked the logistical challenges of moving. Inspired by others living on sailboats, they decided to pursue a nomadic sailing lifestyle. Initially, they thought they would wait until retirement but eventually realized they wanted to live life differently now, not later.
• First Experiences on a Boat: Lorenzo’s wife had some reservations about sailing due to past seasickness, but after trying a calm catamaran trip, she became more open to the lifestyle. They took trial sailing vacations, and after positive experiences, they decided to pursue the boat life seriously.
• Choosing a Boat: They researched catamarans, attended boat shows, and eventually bought a Lagoon 440 boat from Croatia. The boat was previously used in a charter, but they found it well-maintained.
• Nomadic Lifestyle Adjustments: Initially, Lorenzo and his wife planned to homeschool their children while moving frequently, but they found it challenging, especially with their energetic young son. They adapted their plan to become “slowmads,” spending longer periods (1-2 years) in each location.
• Current Base: They picked Malta as their first long-term base due to its warm Mediterranean climate, English-speaking environment, and favorable business conditions. Later, they moved to Tenerife, using these locations as bases while exploring other areas during the summer.

Transcript of the episode

The following transcript is generated via Hindenburg, and it’s not perfect. I’m updating it to be more readable. Nevertheless, it’s already useful, that’s why I’m publishing it.

The transcript has been slightly edited for clarity.

Introduction and Setting

Piotrek
Hello Lorenzo.

Lorenzo
Hello, Piotrek.

Piotrek
Welcome to my podcast. And today I would like to talk about you and about your journey because I decided to name this particular chapter as Lorenzo, who is some extra national sailing slowmad.

Lorenzo
Okay, a very interesting name, very accurate.

Piotrek
And I think we should attach those three different subjects and follow how they developed over time. So if you could. tell me, before we, start even with, where did you start your journey for everyone who is listening, all of the noises, all of the crux alone, the engine or the wind that you can hear is because we are recording this cell in our passage from the Tenerife to Gibraltar. And we are currently in this very moment motoring, so using our engines move on. But motor.

Lorenzo
Sailing.

Piotrek
Motor sailing. Okay, so still have our sales up and whenever we this strong enough, we turn off the engine to sail properly. We try to find some space not have too much noise. But it’s part of the fun for you to know that we are not in a recording studio. We are just sitting on a boat and talking about very interesting topics. So I suppose I remember your hometown is Vicenza. Verona Yeah, one of those. I always mix those to Verona, but it’s still Veneto. Yes. US Region Do you have any particular memories or thoughts about this place that it’s triggered you to, travel the world or It’s already been so interesting that you are interested in your own history of your own country, of the region?

Lorenzo
Well, of course, I love my my country and especially my city. And I, I have very fond memories of my, you know, my teenage years and my growing up in Verona. And there was a big rivalry with Vicenza. So we had no from Vicenza and from Verona.

Piotrek
There’s a little fighting.

Lorenzo
Yes, a rivalry. So anyway, no, no, I’m. Of course, I love my city. I love my friends. There and my family and. Everything that I left behind over. There. I don’t know how that has influenced or not. My my story. I don’t I cannot think of a specific influence, just that, you know, Of course, I’m. I love the history of my city, and there’s a lot of beauty in my city and in Italy, but there’s also the beauty around the world. So, yes, I’ve. Explored Italy a lot. But I wanted to explore the rest of the world. It’s so big and so interesting that, you know.

Piotrek
Very good answer, very diplomatic. Oh, but I also feel that way that you can appreciate the beauty of the world the same way as you can appreciate the stuff that is very close from Poland. Like literally you can walk down the street and you can discover something completely new every time walk there. So when you are growing up, is topic or the theme of being the electrical engineer, It’s something that came up really early or is it later on fairly early?

Lorenzo
I would say not specifically, maybe electrical engineer. But I was always interested in science. There was always, you know, opening toys and trying to. Figure out what’s inside. And okay, I was at one point in high school very much in love with physics. So I wanted to be a researcher in physics for most of my high school. But then when it was time to choose a career path or a university. I listen to different ideas and I got convinced that engineering was a little bit. More useful. It was a little bit more. Practical in in finding a job, you know, the normal career ideas. In physics. And so I kind. Of chose. Between something I really love, which would have been to do that very, let’s say, very deep research, but of course also very difficult to be successful know, so you can spend your life and not finding anything.

Piotrek
Uh, indeed.

Early Life and Engineering Career

Lorenzo
Whereas in engineering it’s also interesting, you can build interesting things and it’s more of a normal career path that so based on this very rational thought, I decided for engineering Electrical because yeah, I found it interesting, but not particularly more interesting than other things. And so I just, yeah, I was the typical. You know, guy in love with all different sciences and math and all that. So I just followed what seemed about Supernatural at the time, and.

Piotrek
The university was in.

Lorenzo
The university was in Milan, was in Milan, which is. one and a half hours by train from. Verona. So I, I went there for university, but it was coming back to Verona for weekends, usually. See, my friends and parents and. Okay, okay. Bring back the dirty laundry and things like that.

Piotrek
Yeah, of course,of course. But you already have some like, student campus to live in during the week.

Lorenzo
They’re not really student campus. More apartments. I mean, there’s not much of that in Italy, not much of, let’s say, university accommodation is more just you go around your own apartment and I yeah, of course I had my apartment. I enjoyed it a lot with a lot of friends, but.

Piotrek
And the opportunity to go to us, was it somehow integrated with your studies or it came.

International Moves and Career Growth

Lorenzo
It came later. I mean, after finishing university, I. Started looking for a job. Of course. In. Engineering. And obviously in electrical engineering, most, most jobs in Italy are in Milan anyway. So I stayed in Milan directly after university started working for a company there. But this company was an. American company. With an office in Milan. But so I worked in the Milan office for. Two and a half years, I think,

and then I had the opportunity and the company was looking for people in California. And I just said, Well, why not? This sounds like an interesting. Ori for a six. Month project. So I said, Well, that’s an opportunity to have a six month. Life in in California. Everything paid for. And it’s a great experience. Let’s go. For it. So I applied, I got the job and. I got this.

Piotrek
Project in Silicon Valley.

Lorenzo
To Silicon Valley. Yes.

Piotrek
Yes.Okay . Okay. Okay. So it was the company.

Lorenzo
My company name was, Teradyne. Not very well known, but they make, Semiconductor testing equipment. So my big machines that test. Electronic chips after they are produced or each one that’s produced needs to be tested by one of these machines. So we had offices near every big, chip producer and a large office, of course, in Silicon Valley because there are many customers.

Piotrek
Yeah, and this is very funny because I remember very early on in my family, we were always interested in electronics. And one of the reasons why chip production is so expensive is because there is a quite huge ratio of the chips that are available, correct? Because it was such a no small thing to work correctly to, to have the the speed, the the clock, you know, as it is written in the technical specification. So often times, you know, like 30% or more of the production line can be faulty. Yes.

Lorenzo
And it depends a lot on which chip. But yeah, it can be even 30% or some of them in digital world. You can. Grade them. You know. Maybe. Only. 50% are the. Top grade. And then you. Have a certain percentage in the second grade and you plug. Them less slower. And you sell them for a. Slower spec and so on. But there’s also a lot of. Other variables like RF chips are more very touchy or very difficult to test, for example. Anyway, there’s. All kinds of variations, but yes, the yield. Which is the percentage of good chips out of a. Batch, can go. Very can go down a. Little pathological, even if they don’t hit 50%. Better than the. Normal scale. Is 90%. But still, you cannot ship 10% of their chips to. Yeah. Through the makers of to the makers of systems because. If a system is made of ten components and each one has a 10%. Chance of being. Faulty, faulty that no system works.

Piotrek
Yeah, you’re.

Lorenzo
Not going to make any good system. So we normally. Ship in with the fault rate of One with 1 to 10 p.m.. So 1 to 10 faulty chips per million is the goal that people try to achieve after being bested. Th why you got have to. Remove. Almost all of the ones that are faulty.

Piotrek
And the father. We are also going in terms of how small our force of the nanometre.

Lorenzo
Yes I then it’s been a while since I work in the industry so I don’t know where they are now, but they were, I, they were definitely in a nine nanometer when I left this. I probably six now or.

Piotrek
Something like that. We are approaching the limits of physics.

Lorenzo
They are approaching the size of the atom of the silicon atom. So you have only two or three atoms in. The, in the in. Track. In the circuit. Then it’s easy to make mistakes.

Piotrek
Okay. Yeah. And it’s of course, expensive. But on the other hand, the demand of the market is so huge, like every single device, every single gadget has a chip right now. So, yeah, it’s definitely something where you can make a career. And for you, the next step after us was France. Was it?

Lorenzo
No, actually, it was back to Italy. What happened at that time is I went to the US and stayed there not. For six months, but for six. For three years in the end. And in the meantime I became a team leader of a. Group of engineers there. And then my former boss in Italy was retiring. And so the. The company asked me to go back to my original. Office and take his position, which was. By the way, one of the most challenging. Moments of my life, becaus, you know. I left that. Office when I was

29, the youngest person in the office by far, and all the others were like 45 or so. And this that the that the manager was retiring and he was 60 some 65 or something. And then I go away for three years and they come back to me as the manager of all these 4550 year old.

Piotrek
Okay, okay.

Lorenzo
People. So it was quite a challenging. Moment in my career, but I went, okay, I. Guess, huh?

Piotrek
And they really want you for this position. You know.

Lorenzo
They wanted me for the position. Of course, some of the. People in the office wanted that position too. But I had this opportunity to go back and to be honest, it was a choice for me to basically at the time I. Was starting to think that after three years in the. US, I was, I was seeing all my friends there, the Italian friends that I had there that have been there for several years for. Five, six years. And when you start to be there for six years or so, then you. Become American, basically. Yeah, I would see all my friends there that they would. Never come back to Italy. Yeah. And so I, I was at a turning point where I had to decide, okay, do they stay here for real and become American? Should I still go back?And I had this good opportunity to go back. And it’s rare to find a good career. Opportunity in Italy in this field. So I said, maybe I’ll take it and go back basically. MM That was the thought.

Piotrek
And so the moving to France was it’s part of this job always changing.

Lorenzo
Same company, but later on. So then I went back to Milan for. Four years and then it. Was 2008, everybody was downsizing because of the. Global crisis and so on. So they were, consolidating some offices and they. Asked me to, to go to France and lead this consolidated office in France. They were laying off a bunch of people there and they asked me to go and someone.

Piotrek
Else kind of took your position then in Milan, or was it kind of.

Transition to a Nomadic Sailing Lifestyle

Lorenzo
Uh, they arranged I mean, not exactly. My position there. A lot of things were arranged at the time, so I yeah, I. Thought. The were less people as managers. So things shifted around and. I did not have the Italian team anymore. But they had the French team. Which was bigger, and some people in the UK as well. And some people in Asia. So it was a bit complicated to explain. But yes, the typical company restructuring, right?

Piotrek
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially at the moment of the economic crisis.

Lorenzo
Yes, exactly.

Piotrek
But always the best argument for the company to change everything, to say.

Lorenzo
Exactly, exactly.

Piotrek
But it seems that it was a good thing for you to have like another interesting destination. Yes. To go to and to believe. And yeah.

Lorenzo
We in this case, it was not my my, my request or my choice. It was the company request. But I enjoyed it because it was a new. Adventure, a new place. A new language, and, you know, something new to do in my life. So I thought, well, why not? Let’s, uh. Let’s go for. It. I went set an enthusiasm anyway, even though it was not my.

Piotrek
Okay, okay.

Lorenzo
Idea would say.

Piotrek
And I think we are approaching this really interesting shift in your journey, because I think the next place was Malta.

Lorenzo
The next place was Malta, More or less. Yes.

Piotrek
This is integrated with the idea of sailing. Yes. And to start living on a boat. Yes. Owning a boat. Yeah. So let’s move this area now. Why did you do that? Why you choose to live.

First Sailing Experiences and Boat Selection

Lorenzo
To live in a boat? Oh, it’s a combination of factors. So it’s not just the boat idea. The boat. It comes with other things. With the boat idea. Before the boat idea, there were other. Ideas, so. It was a bit. The combination went like this. part of it was, by the way, at the time. In the meantime, I got married with. My wife that I met in California. So she came with me to Italy and we went together with France.

And, uh, we were in France, and he started saying, well, we enjoyed these. These three. Moves. We really loved the idea of. Exploring new cultures. And new countries by living in a new place, not by visiting as a tourist. So we started to form the idea of, Oh, we like to spend a year or two. Or three in in a different country. To. To learn something new, to meet new people, new ideas, fresh. Stimuli. so that was one point. however, we did not like the actual practicality of moving, so we didn’t like to pack up all our stuff. We didn’t like. To redo all the paperwork, open your bank. Accounts and you know, the whole health insurance do the whole everything that’s related.

Piotrek
To. Yeah.

Lorenzo
The whole paperwork to, to move. And because she’s, by the way, Japanese. I’m Italian. We have different all different intricacy in the whole paperwork so we didn’t like that part. Oh. so we have moving we have not, not physically moving our stuff. especially her are actually my wife was born near the sea and she really. Loves to live by the sea. so we came up with this idea of why don’t we move around by sailing. Boat instead of moving the traditional. Way, live on a sailboat and go. And live in different countries, spend as much time as we like in one country or the next or the other. We started to. Read blogs, watch vlogs. there are people doing it. They’re called cruisers. Typically the people who live in a sailboat and move around. So instead of watching a lot of that, it seems possible. It seems like an idea that can be achieved. But we originally thought we are. It can be achieved by we will achieve it. When when we retire. Maybe because I still have a job. I still had a job. But corporate job was needed to be in one location. She, in the meantime, had opened a small Japanese. Shop slash takeaway restaurant in Grenoble.

Piotrek
In French.

Lorenzo
In France, in Grenoble, where we were living. so we said, Yeah, well. I want to do it, but maybe later. But after I, we started also thinking, yeah, but maybe later while doing this when we. Are 60. Five. Will be very challenging, physically challenging. You know, I don’t know if we will get to do it. And so we started thinking, well, maybe we should find a way to do it before that. And, and that came the other aspect, which is At the same time I was also quite stressed. And quite, uh, yeah, not, not having a good time in my career. At least it’s very depleated in my career.

So I put that together and, and. And I started to think, okay, what can I do differently? Specifically, I. Remember there was a moment where I thought. I was very stressed. I was working like everybody, like every manager. And you you focus in your. KPIs. And every. Quarter. You review your KPIs, meaning you review. How your team is doing, the efficiency of the team, how many projects we completed on time and all that, and you get scored. You know, on all these. Things. And then one day when I was closing the quarter and. Then checking my numbers and then presenting my things through my management, I started thinking, Well. When I’ll be. 70 years old. Will I care about the results of the second quarter? That doesn’t tend to me if I freeze or improve the efficiency of the team by 1% or by 1.5%. Will that make a big difference in my life, looking back?

Piotrek
Yeah.

Lorenzo
Yeah, probably not. Was the answer to this question. And this how. I said, now this is I cannot pull this off. This adventure cannot be put off too. When I’m 65, I need to find a different way of doing living life today. Yeah.

Piotrek
Not in.

Lorenzo
The future. Not in the future. Not in the far future.

Piotrek
Okay. Okay. So it seems that You already have the great idea. You did the research. You were convinced that This is the way to follow. But then there’s the question. Yeah. Like how much energy and then how much budget you want to put into something completely new, especially since you didn’t have any sailing like, experience.

Lorenzo
Yes. Yes, of course.

Piotrek
So how did you tackle the problem of getting some experience or some papers and then finding the proper votes and then also be sure that the both will be fit for your family because you have two kids and you wanted to deal together. Yeah. So what is the process here?

Preparing for Life at Sea

Lorenzo
Yeah. So the process was like this. First of all, we wanted to make sure that. That we really liked the idea because one thing is like the idea on paper. One thing is to try so first step. And I was very. Excited. By the idea. My wife was somehow that how excited and excited about some aspects with the one I said that and moving around that. But she was. A little skeptical about this setting, but. Specifically because. She actually her father had a sailing board and she was always getting. Seasick on. His sailing boat and she hated. Going into. Sailing. So she liked everything as a way idea. But another thing which was very much

what what we did was one summer in the south of France, we. Went on a sailing boat trip for half. A day.

And it was a very calm day and it was a very beautiful. Very large catamaran. And then she she liked it and she was happy. And then good, good. First taste was good. And then second test. I think we took another couple of sailing vacation at one. Yeah, defini one more sailing vacation. In Corsica for a week. Also on a catamaran. with all the. Luxury, I mean, all day, you know, we didn’t we’re not doing anything on the boat with you and with skipper. And hostess, and everything was done for us.

Piotrek
Like a vacation.

Lorenzo
Like a proper vacation. So not to learn how. To sail, but just to see how we feel on a week for a week on a boat. And that was. Also very nice. So she was excited about that experience as well.

Piotrek
No seasickness.

Lorenzo
No seasickness. Also, we were very lucky. Also, that week was completely flat all week. We did not open the sails. Once a month anyway. so that was good. So I got to certain. approval on the idea of a setting boat as long as it’s a catamaran, because she felt. That it was more stable than a monohull, which is true in many conditions. Maybe not, but it’s very rough. But in many calm conditions, it’s more stable. So we started thinking. About seriously about this catamaran. Idea. We went to see some trade shows and, you know, both shows. And set foot on some of the brands was mainly, yeah, one in France to in France. I went to see some boat show to step on the different models, see them. And we started to figure out which. One we liked. What size is okay to live on and things like that. What’s the budget, how much They both, they tend to be very expensive, by the way.

Piotrek
Yeah, yeah. But the was only like the beginning line.

Lorenzo
Yeah. Yeah.

Piotrek
And then to infinity when.

Adapting to a “Slowmad” Lifestyle

Lorenzo
The beginning line is already quite high. Yeah, that’s the problem. But yeah. I mean a new one is expensive, a used one can be. Cheaper. B they’re not as cheap as mono hulls, but they can, can be done. So now we started to consider which models and. We focused on the most common models, the large, large production models, because they’re cheaper, and they’re easy to. Find.

Piotrek
And also in terms of maintenance and.

Lorenzo
Also more. cheaper in terms of maintenance. Yes. So what we did then we, so we had more or less two models in. Mind that we. Really liked. The one we bought is one of them. Of course.

Piotrek
That’s the.

Lorenzo
Lagoon Lagoon for four zero. Seven or 40. We then in our research and in our of course at the time we were. Looking at a lot of things online and blogs as they said, and. Things like that and forums, I think on our forums. And we came across a family that was living. On a. Lagoon for 40 of the time in Panama and they were offering, y know, in order to make some money, basically, they were. Offering the idea of. Other families who are. Considering. This life to go there and have. A sailing vacation with them on the same catamaran.

Piotrek
Excellent.

Lorenzo
You know, by paying for the for the vacation, but not, you know, at least, you know. The advantage was you see exactly the model you’re thinking of. And we need. All the things that you want because they lived on it and they know all the. Details. And also you. Get to talk to them and ask all the questions about how is life on a catamaran for real or.

Piotrek
Like a tour design. Exactly. On tour operator. But more kind of like with people who are actually living this and making this more of like an experience.

Lorenzo
Exactly. Exactly. So that was good. We so we talked to them and. We decided to go and do the this last. … it. It was our last test. Before deciding this is the right way to go.

Piotrek
Two weeks, three or.

Lorenzo
Four, ten days, I think maybe two. Weeks, including the travel, but then something like that, maybe ten days on the on the book itself. In an amazing. Place because these they were in the Sun. Blast Islands. These are. Tiny island off the coast of Panama, but. Inhabited. By some. Kuna people. They’re called some tribe who don’t use money. They exchange goods with coconuts. Okay. That’s the the currency of coconuts. Yes. Excellent. They have some independency from the from the Panama government. So they ruled themselves with this traditional ways. And it’s super beautiful. I mean, every island is amazing. And so we get to take a. Little four people plane to get to the only dirt dirt airfield. On one island. Okay. So it was. Very.

Piotrek
This the only way to reach the beach?

Lorenzo
The boat. Exactly. Very nice mention and nothing. We talk to these two. This family, very nice family. He is. His French and she’s. Israeli with three daughters. And we went on the boat with the two of us. And our two kids. So the whole family. It was quite a lot.

Piotrek
Of people with.

Lorenzo
Other people in the same boat. But we managed and it was great. We enjoyed it. We had a very good time with them and we asked many questions. And I just want to. Mention that. When we asked that, what’s the most challenging. Part of living on a boat? And they both answered independently. The relationship.

So it’s not the storms is not the pirate. It’s not learning how to sail. It’s maintaining the relationship. Well on the boat.

Piotrek
With everyone involved.

Lorenzo
With everyone involved. But I would say mainly the the couple’s relationship. Yeah,

but yeah. So, so after that what we did then I took a bit of sailing training and a bit of. Other certifications with friends who were teaching me.

So I took the basic sailing. Permit in Italy

and that’s it. And then we started looking for. Where to buy the boat and. You know, of course, reading all the information about it, what to look for, what to check, what to, what’s in good condition with sun condition. And, and so on. What are the typical defects or what breaks.

Piotrek
Yeah, that’s that’s definitely one of the questions everyone should ask. Yes. Because you, you want to be prepared for replacing stuff or buying new if the thing cannot be fixed. Yeah. and then you finally managed to find this boat in Croatia. Yes. Lik a charter company.

Lorenzo
we’ve seen other boats in, li two in Rome, two in Sicily. And then in the end, this one in Croatia. And it was in the best the, the best, the shape of the ones we’ve seen and the best price. And we were happy with it. It was a charter boat. Yeah. So people, of course, you need to be more careful. With charter boats because normally they are treated a bit less carefully than. Owner.

Piotrek
Boats and they’re like the cars that you hire.

Lorenzo
Exactly.Is like buing a taxi or former taxis. Yeah, but, I think it was good. Definitely good. A good choice. This company was treating the boats very well. They are the lagoon dealer for Croatia, so they had all the in-house maintenance done by the people who maintain lagoons all the time. So we were quite happy with the service and with everything.

so yeah, we bought it and then we sailed it from Croatia to Venice to move on the boat onto the boat. And, and then the adventure started. We went for it.

Piotrek
Yeah. Yeah. The next phase of the adventure. Yeah. Because. Yeah,moving on a boat is just like a big life decision. And now you are not having fixed, a stationary house somewhere. Or you are not even moving from house to house. You are basically having your very nice apartment. floating with some challenges. Yeah. And so, I will move to those challenges in a second. But before that I am interested. once you had the boat, what questions do you ask yourself or how do you talk with Yuko . with your wife? in regards to choosing the next place to spend some time because the first was Malta and then from Malta you move to Tenerife.

Lorenzo
Yes. As a base. As a base.

Piotrek
Yeah. But you can always go round. Yeah. Why, Malta, why Tenerife ..

Lorenzo
For first of all, before getting into that, I have. To say that. The original plan was not to spend such a long time. In each country. the original plan, at least partially the original plan was to to move. Around whenever we felt. Like it. That’s what. Most cruises. Do. And to do that, they homeschool their kids. Because most cruises have kids unless they are pension or retired. So despite them our age, most of them, t have kids. so you, you have to homeschool your kids. And at the time we had one daughter who was,16, 15, 16. And one son who was three years old when we left, but the daughter was. Going to spend one. Year in the US as an. Exchange. Stud, and we timed it exactly so that we could take that one year to. Experiment on. The boat. And then still decide when she comes. Back, okay, we like it or we don’t. Like it. And see what you do next.

Piotrek
Okay?

Lorenzo
Okay. Without you know disturbing her plans too much. You know, she had already this plan of doing this year abroad. So, and then for the smaller kids. Leo, Kid. Leo, we we said, okay, he’s three years old, so.He normally goes to kindergarten, but whatever he does in kindergarten, we can do it on the boat. We be on the beach all the time with the kids. You can play and we can do the little drawing and then tiny. school like. activities on the boat like everybody does. Everybody all the other cruises that. Yeah.

And it turned out to be a lot more difficult than we planned because to be honest, we had like so many changes at the same time in one year. So maybe I’m over the challenges, but at the same. Time we quit their jobs. we had already our own. Business, but, you know, we need really to. Focus on a lot more, more and more on. This, on this business, because it was the only way of making money. Which means. Being on the board with the computer doing work. And at the same time having a three year old jumping around everywhere. I wanted to play. I wanted to do things. And of course, we’re. Taking turns. We’re going to the beach, we’re meeting other kids, but it’s been very difficult. And so we realized that the. Truly. Doing what the other cruises were doing, meaning homeschooling and then just being the family together, without a. Real school was. Very difficult for us. And I don’t know if it’s us as parents. Our son was very active. Re, really wanted to do things all the time. Not they did not like at all drawing or doing something. quiet it

So we said, Look, we’re not. Going to make it this way. And that’s why we said no. Okay. So we changed. The plan. To become a slomads, as you were saying. So to. Spend at least one. Full year in each country, but most likely two or three, so that he can go to. School. To kindergarten first and then school in his country. And we sail around during the summer.

Piotrek
We yeah.

Lorenzo
So that was the new plan, a new idea. And then we started talking about, so how do we choose the first country we go to?And the choice of Malta was mainly, it’s the warmest place, more or less in the Mediterranean. together, maybe with Cyprus and a couple of other places. But one of the warmest the weather in the Mediterranean. they speak English and our common. Language at home is English because Japanese and Italian, we speak English. With each other. And we wanted our son to grow up with English as his first language. So that’s the. Reason. And also it’s very good for opening a company there. So there’s tax advantages and there’s good, let’s say, good infrastructure, good.

Legal infrastructure to open a company there. And then. The company can easily work anywhere in Europe because Malta is part of the. EU. Slightly said there’s nothing fishy about it. It’s very open so we thought well it’s a good place. To spend the beginning of this adventure and. Also opened the company there. And so we that’s what we did that’s why we picked Malta.

Piotrek
It’s very nice, very nice. And then Tenerife refer

Lorenzo
After that, Te neri fe, because then we, ended up spending three winters in Malta. And so four summers. Sailing the Mediterranean in different parts. So in one part. One summer west of Greece. One summer east of Greece, one summer Croatia, one summer, Sicily, Sardinia, Balearic Islands. So we.We have explored quite well. The Mediterranean by then also because we with our son being small enough, we were thinking like longer summers. I mean, he was going to school for eight months and we were saving for four months. So in four months you can see a lot of good of nice places. And we we loved those four years and we loved this for summers. but then we studied it. I mean, the plan was to move so to keep moving, not to stay always in the same place. And by the way, we also loved. Malta a lot. But also it also is a small island. So after a while, you, you.

Piotrek
You know, everything.

Lorenzo
You know everything. And it’s time to move on, basically.

But it was a beautiful experience in Malta, beautiful environment. Also a lot of business idea. Flour because with the with the fact that.

That that the environment for. Companies is very good. So there are a lot of people going there for start ups. So you meet a lot of other startup owners and a lot of other entrepreneurs and that’s interesting.

Anyway, then we’ve we’ve decided that our. Maltese experience was was. Finished. The and the plan was to cross the Atlantic and move to the Caribbeans because it’s beautiful. Because, you know, it’s one of the best sailing grounds. In the world and because there’s a lot of, cruisers. A lot of people living on. Boats who sail in that area. Yeah. Whereas in the Mediterranean there’s less. And even more, even less with kids, you know? So it’s hard to find other boats with kids in the Mediterranean. There are ways to meet each other, but it’s there’s not many in, whereas in the Caribbean, there are so many that we said, okay, it’s. Going to be is but on the way there, everybody. Stops in the Canary. Islands. Because it’s on the way and because it’s so far.

Piotrek
You stopped for a little while.

Lorenzo
Yeah, we stopped there a bit longer than planned. It was supposed to stop for initially for maybe three months and then ended up being, well, let’s do a year and three months. Because there’s a season for crossing the season of our crossing is, let’s say December, January. So we arrive there in. September. October. So either we would get ready quickly and leave the next January, but we said, no, it’s too short. Let’s explore. A little bit more. The Canary Islands and let’s. Get more ready. And then okay, in. One more year.

A then one thing led to another. And also COVID came and. Various reasons turned. In to three years basically. So we spent three winters in the Canary Islands and one summer sailing around the islands. And then other summer, we didn’t sail much, but we, we went, we did something different but really enjoyed it Tene rife, basically. Y. And that’s why we stayed longer.

Piotrek
That’s definitely beautiful Island and this is the place where we met. Really glad that we had this opportunity through other connections, specifically through Nine coliving and Anne who’s running this place. And I stayed there for a couple of months.

this is I think, very good point to, turn into the digital nomadimg, because for me, that’s most intriguing part of being able to travel and also to stay for a long time in any destination that I really enjoy and on the other hand you do progress or you can have a career or run your own company totally remotely because you just need your laptop and the internet connection and then whatever you want to sell or however you want to do your business, it is possible. So please tell me what is Zen Pasta? How did you came with this great idea?

Lorenzo
Yeah . So this goes back to 2010. When I was thinking I need a. Career change. Basically, we left it at. Yeah. And I’m 70 and want to be worried about these KPIs.

Piotrek
Exactly.

Lorenzo
and so that summer I was. Thinking, okay, I need to do to change something my life. And the. Sailing idea was there. But in order to it a reality, we also needed the. The other half. Of the equation, which is making money, basically.

Piotrek
Yeah a.

Lorenzo
Business or a career or something. And so I started reading around and I read in particular the super famous. Book on this topic. The 4 hours workweek by Tim Ferriss everybody that. Is interested in this to read. This book.

Piotrek
Probably the most recommended book, on Amazon in the business category, even after more than ten years, many years later.

Lorenzo
I read in 2010. So I don’t I remember when it was published, but yeah. Anyway, I read it and then it worked. I mean, I followed the instructions and. And it worked. And in. Particular, there’s many things I like about the book, but the what I did, what it. Says about reducing the time you spend on. Your regular job.And so I did that first. And then we started thinking about a niche idea based on. what we knew basically, and what. The areas of life where we have. Experience, which is not business experience or study related experience, but just anything we have.

Piotrek
Yeah, yeah.

Lorenzo
And actually I recently found the piece of. paper where I wrote all the ideas. Oh so I have refreshed in my mind that some of the not the ideas but the categories. Were to look into. Yeah, the brainstorming. Categories were something very, very strange. And things. Like a.

Pomeranian dog owners. Okay. Or I don’t know, like, of course, in general digital. Nom. Or people who like to party or people. Who like to. What was it, an international family of mixed mixed race or mixed intermixed, uh, nationality families. parents of, International. School kids. All kinds of ideas as to.

Piotrek
All it applies to.

Lorenzo
.. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we basically, we looked at our life and all the different aspects of our life and what. What categories can we find.

Piotrek
On an aside? No, just for everyone to know. The Pomeranian is the.

Lorenzo
Breed of.

Piotrek
The breed of your dog. POM pom. Yes. Really, really lovely. Really beautiful. dog that is selling with you must.

Lorenzo
He’s sailing with us for all this time.

So we had all these categories. One category was, healthy food, people into healthy foods basically. And this was not necessarily because I or my wife were too much into healthy foods,but the thought there was that, my wife being Japanese, she thought there are many.The Japanese in general are. Very obsessed by food. Or finding healthy foods? And so she thought that she could access a lot of information that. Many people don’t have in Europe around healthy foods. And so she find something interesting there. And in fact, she did. So she looked into ideas around healthy foods. And it was actually quite funny because it happened also through her mom, becaus we she had thought about this idea of shirataki . .. This is a special type. Of noodles made in. Traditionally eaten in Japan, mainly for their consistency. They like the texture in Japan, but it also has the property. Of being made all. By fibre. So they like it also because it’s healthy, meaning it’s all fibre. So it cleans your intestine and helps your. You bowel movements. And it’s good for fibre, it generally is good for your body and it’s an easy way to eat all the fibres.

Piotrek
Yeah.

Lorenzo
so that’s what they think in Japan about these, but they’re normally sold in a package full of water and the water is quite stinky when you open them. And, and the texture for Italians. Is a little bit too soft and to not, not very. Appealing. Yeah. So we looked at them, but we were not very convinced. But by chance, once the, her mom sent the typical package. From Japan with all the foods and all this stuff.

Piotrek
Just like gift.

Lorenzo
Gift. Yeah. Yeah. That you miss from home. And one of the pack. One thing inside this package was these shirataki but dry. Which Yuko . had, never seen before.

Piotrek
Okay?

Lorenzo
And we thought, Oh, these are different than the one we knew. Maybe this could work. They don’t think when you open them and the texture. Is a lot. Firmer. More.aldente . what we. Like in Italy. So maybe this could be something that could work in Italy. We started, eating them with some. Italian friends to see. the reaction do the research, test them with our friends.

Piotrek
Okay.

Lorenzo
And everybody said, Yeah, I could eat something like this. Why not? It’s not the same as. Pasta, but. It does a good, good texture and a good feeling. And so we thought, okay, there’s a possibility there. then we started. Researching what are the really the advantages and what, how can we describe? And then market the selling points of this pasta. And doing that research, we realized that some people were looking for it because in France there was a diet. To get thinner invented by certain. Doctor, Dukan .? This doctor knew about the. shi rata ki, propose. as one of the Foods for his diet. Mm. So people were actually looking for it for. Dieting purposes to lose weight. Exactly. Because they are made of fibre so they have no carbs and no. And very little calories, basically almost zero calories. So because of that people like it. And we thought, okay, maybe it’s a good idea, maybe we can try this. And we we put together a. Website, uh, very. V quickly in like a. Weekend and we bought a bit of of the pasta of. of this, these. Noodles.

Piotrek
The one that Yu ko’s mum sent.

Lorenzo
Yes. Exactly. The dry ones. And we came up with a name which. Was the. Zen pasta. Because we think it’s a, it’s a good combination of a Japanese or Asian. To feel Zen and pasta because. If. It’s Italian was to. Substitute Italian pasta. Ahem. So we came up with the name with this we in some of these diet forums. So it’s that we, we wrote simply. Oh, I found this shi rataki . here and and then in two days. We sold everything although the initial. Batches that we bought.

Piotrek
How much was it?

Lorenzo
We remember it was like a box. S let’s say 50 packages.

Piotrek
Okay. And that was only two Italians.

Lorenzo
Yeah, only three Italians. Because initially the website was Italian only.

Piotrek
Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So that sounds very like validating the idea. According to the for our work, we work exactly.

Lorenzo
That’s exactly what it says. Make a small investment, test it out. Yeah. Yeah, we did. And it was, it says without any advertising. We have also tested us. Without spending too much money on it, without. Find a way. To test it with a small invest in here. The investment was, you know, a few hundred euros for the product and the Yeah. Couple and like €50. For the websites and a. Bit of work.

Piotrek
You know.

Lorenzo
So we did that it was successful and we said okay do we have a business then we have a it seems like this is going to fly. And then we started getting more and more of the, you know, be. Ordering more and making our own packages. And okay, there’s a lot. Of other. Things that. You learn along the way, like how. To run a company, all the paperwork related, how to ship stuff efficiently. Of course, at the beginning we were making packages in our. On our kitchen table and. Then bringing. Them to the post office and then finding a logistics partner. You know, there’s a lot of other work involved. How to import food. From outside of Europe into Europe, what kind of certifications you need and all this. You know, a lot of study about all that. Yeah, the details. But we knew there was a, there was something possible there. So finding the logistics partner because initially we ship small amounts and nobody wants to talk to you.

Piotrek
Yeah.

Lorenzo
Because you know. Moving one pallet. From Indonesia to. To Italy or France. Yeah. The companies don’t want to talk to you.

And then we. Anyway, solving all these problems in. The first year. More or less.

Piotrek
Okay.

Lorenzo
And then selling more and more. And again, we were lucky because. This Dukan diet was very. Successful at the time and. everywhere people were talking. About it. Even in the gas stations, they were selling the need to do. It. Yeah. Okay.

Piotrek
So Italy.

Lorenzo
Yeah, in Italy, like in Italy, but. Also in France, I think because this doctor is French. So it was popular in France and other countries, I think in Europe. So yeah,in the first years we. Were just really, really successful because of this diet. And then we also started our brand started to become famous enough that people bought it not just for that diet, but in general for diets like.

Piotrek
Just to go a little bit deeper into specifics of what is this shirataki? . . ., it’s made out of konjac, which is this very peculiar . flower. it is more used by Japanese culture. And this is why know, the healthy features of it. And we only use the root part because it’s eatable. And for your size of the company now, or other producers also choosing to grow it in Indonesia. Yes we are the climate and and like the accessibility of it isn’t it.

Lorenzo
Yeah, it can be grown in any like warm. Warm country. Let’s say warm tropical countries can grow. Easily, to be honest, even in temperate. Countries, because originally it was grown in Japan. But then they found out it grows better in the south of China and Indonesia, in places warmer, let’s say. so yes, it’s as you said, it’s the big root. It’s the plant that has to grow. It has to develop for three years, and then it becomes this big, big potato, let’s say, or I would say the size of a pumpkin. Yeah, you imagine it. Okay. And it’s a big root. And then from this big root, you cut it in pieces and you dry it and then you make a flour out of it. And this flour. You use it to make pasta. But it’s a little bit different than. Making normal pasta. with wheat. of course . There’s special. Techniques that and in fact it’s easier to make it in this water.

Piotrek
And then sell it.

Lorenzo
It and then sell it in the water. It’s very. Tricky. And there’s a patent on how to make it dry, to make it in a, in a dry form of noodles. And we found that this Indonesian. Company, which. Is Indonesia but, but let’s say owned by Japanese, they. were started. So in fact. I also a nice story because this company was Founded by an officer of the Japanese army.

Piotrek
Really. Yeah.

Lorenzo
Who was in Indonesia during World War Two.

And back at the time.

Piotrek
When.

Lorenzo
Japan had ..

Piotrek
those ideas of conquering the world.

Lorenzo
He was there to conquer Indonesia, to be part of the army.

Piotrek
Then he never come back to Japan.

Lorenzo
He met the wife there and decided to stay there and, An yeah. And then he started different businesses, including this one.

Piotrek
Okay. And now he’s.

Lorenzo
Yeah, he’s the Descendants. Yeah. He passed. Away. Of course. And yeah, his grandson. And now he’s running the company. So. Yeah. But still with a Japanese. Style because It’s an Indonesian and of course.His family is half Indonesian. But even the grandson. Studied. In Japan Study University in Japan because they want to still be.

Piotrek
Yeah. Yeah. Very connected.

Lorenzo
Very connected.

Piotrek
The culture as I assume it’s also because of the business relationship. They’re like yeah, Japan is probably the main market for this.

Lorenzo
Product to be, to be precise. Until they met us, Japan was the only market for them.They were making this fabric specifically for the Japanese market because they. Thought nobody was interested outside of Japan because it’s a very typical Japanese. Dish.

Piotrek
Until some French doctor decided.

Lorenzo
Yeah, exactly, exactl.

Piotrek
To promote this this particular ingredient, this sort of correct. Yeah. Yeah. it’s so how many things can stick to each other sometimes very randomly and you know, if you are curious enough and focus enough to see the pattern then yeah you can make the business out of it. So could you tell me, you started doing that, at the same time you had that crazy idea of working from a boat was there any, like, transition periods many people do or even in the four hour workweek, there is this thing of not risking everything at once. Yeah. Like, yeah. Did you keep your corporate work, though?

Lorenzo
Oh.

Piotrek
Yeah. Yeah.

Lorenzo
More, I think we open the company. Well the idea was it in 2010. Towards . the end of 2010 . but at the time I was super stressed. An overworked. That’s why I wanted to change. But also that also means that I had no time to do something else.

Piotrek
So.

Lorenzo
But then in 2011, I had the opportunity within the company. There was some more. Restructuring and I was offered a job that was less, intense. that I probably would not have accepted if in my normal way of thinking, because maybe career wise was not the best solution. Or the best path forward. Bu at the time I already had in. Mind that I wanted to move in this different direction. So I took this job. Offer inside the company. Which allowed me to move from. Whatever, 68. Hours a week that I. Was doing. Before to a more normal 40. Hours per week, which. Left me a lot of time in my normal day to start the company to Do what we said so far. So in 2011 I switched jobs. Inside the company and in. January 2012, we started the company.

And then I still spend the whole 2012 and. I think in 2013 growing the. Company and then in May 20. 14, So two and. A half years later,

I actually left the. Company and left my, my old job because of the time that my company, the pasta company, grew enough that I thought, okay, if I can make a living out of it, it seems stable. It’s not a fad. Disappear in six months. So there was enough, data to show that, yes, it’s.

Piotrek
It’s possible to . . It’s a good choice. And you were focusing from the very beginning on Italian markets because, yes, you know, we.

Lorenzo
Italy is the.

Piotrek
Best, and did you already have this phase try to go into other European markets or outside of Europe?

Lorenzo
Yes, we we started France Immediately because we were in France. And it seemed obvious. then I started doing something in Spain. Because I had a friend who was spoke with Spanish and was happy to take care of that. Country. But to be honest, it this these other countries were not. Very successful in the beginning or for quite a while. I would say, because. Well, first of all, you really need. To know, I mean, to market the country, you need to know, especially food. You have to know the food culture, you need to know the language. If you read around and find what people are really looking for. So still, most of our business for several years. Was still focused in Italy. And I would say in the last now two or three years. Is when other countries started to become more interesting. I mean, they were actually attacking other countries, but they were not that successful, I think. But then we started. To find a good partner in Germany or in fact, two good partners. In Germany. wanted to create their own brand. So they selling with. Their own brand. We found a good distributor. In Spain. Who were selling our. Brand.

we have some connections in UK. We France, we are still in under our own. Brand, but we are looking for a distributor because in just our website is not doing. Much. So now we are expanding other countries basically.

Piotrek
. I am asking about this specifically because from the very beginning of our conversation we are touching on those different international places. Yeah. you come from one place, you have some experience in other places. By living and working you understand the international relationships. Then you can adjust and understand how is it working in different regions? And then I remember on some other occasion when we are talking that the European Union is this big nice dream of making us united and like very easy to sell and to distribute whatever goods or services you have yeah so the final goal probably will be something similar to US where, you know, one iPhone can be sold in every states almost at the same, price or how easy it is to get it in every store But already have this experience that European Union is not there yet. So what is the biggest challenge for anyone who is maybe trying to follow your path?

Lorenzo
yes. The biggest challenge. I think the challenge of internationalizing. Inside the European Union. There are several. of course, if you focus on purely online, it’s kind of doable. There is the language barrier, of. Course, and then the cultural barrier. So again, for food, you need to understand how people like to use a certain food. And it’s not always easy if you’re not from that country. So let’s say that the. Marketing needs to be. Specific enough to the country. but more on what. You were hinting at. If you start to have a sizeable business. There’s a whole theme of a VAT that is a nightmare. To take. Care of the VAT properly in all the different countries that you’re selling. To. And of course the different if you’re selling to. Private. Customers or you sell to. Companies and this whole. Basical you need to have. You practically. Need to have an account in every country. There’s one. Subject. Which is, of course, ridiculous, expensive, just ridiculous. Overall.

But that’s where we are now with the European Union. And also, if you know, if you want to sell to businesses.In that country. you can legally you can. legally, it’s not a problem. But practically they very often they feel more comfortable with local businesses, with dealing with the local entity and legal entity. you. Also need local salespeople. I mean, in my case, I don’t want. To hire. A bunch of salespeople who go to sell to stores in France, for example, like in Spain. I didn’t want to do that, so I found a distributor. So you need to find the right distributor in every country. And they are very country specific enough. There’s nothing that’s the. There’s very few companies. That are really European wide. Yeah, they all have niches in each country still.

Piotrek
And even if we think that, for example, English is the universal language because yeah, that’s what we use everyday. it’s not the case for those local businesses or local customers either. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, definitely the language of the culture barrier exists, but on the other hand, ther is a lot of improvement. Yeah. For example, if anyone is interested, they can buy directly from your website that this on Shopify? Ye. Does the Shopify have kind of a way to make it easy for local markets? If someone is buying from Germany, then they will see everything in German and the process will be fit for them?

Lorenzo
Actually, no, no, no. For example, Shopify, I like it a lot of many, m respects. Is definitely I’m very happy with the choice of Shopify on almost. Everything. Yeah,

except that it’s very it’s a Canadian company and it’s very. North American centric. They are improving over time. I’ve been with them for more than ten years, so I see I’ve seen improvements, but. They still don’t prioritize. Is the internalization of it over shop is there is no. Way you can find apps to have it. In different languages, but they’re very cumbersome and it’s not designed for it. So they would need a very basic design design change to make it multi-language. And they’re not doing. It yet, at least until recently they didn’t have. Support for local VAT numbers in Europe. They didn’t understand the cost of the VAT because in America they don’t have them. So if you want to sell. To companies, not the private people, they have. No way to put in the VAT number to get a VAT invoice. So there’s a lot of things. That being. An American or a North. American company,they they’re not doing well for the European market.

Piotrek
Yeah.

Lorenzo
On the other side, they’re very good for many of the things. So I’m still with them. But there are. Workarounds. But many of these things are really workarounds. And not that so easy. And another thing is logistics also. I mean. You can step. Through Amazon. In that case. Yes, they take care of everything, but if you sell it from. Your own shop, also shipping from a country. Let’s say, from Italy to the other European countries. It takes much longer. It’s much more expensive. So the typical one kilo package, whereas in the same country you pay. Maybe five six euros for . delivery, you pay as a business owner no what the final customer is. If it’s just across the border, even very close to your country, but across the border becomes 20. Euros. And then nobody wants to, nobody wants to pay €20 delivery costs.

Piotrek
Why should they?

Lorenzo
When they buy online. So so it’s hard. You can do the business this way, but. To be really successful in a certain country, you need to have a logistics warehouse in that country and ship with local shipping companies basically.

Piotrek
Yeah. And, and then of course there is that question of scale because it is only doable if you have enough customers in this specific region. But how do you get those customers without being there first? ..

Lorenzo
Exactly, And if you ship from the same country, even to local customers, then you cannot put your origin a country VAT. On the bill you have to put it in this case, it’s a French VAT. You end up with a French vat. You need to have a French accountant that declares that VAT do that. So this

is so very..

Piotrek
Are you aware of any scheme that would work like the mini one stop shop? I think because the digital realm, if there is, for example, an app store selling the apps . on your phone, they could have just one European company, let’s say in Italy. But then through this European digital scheme, if the customer is private person buying, let’s say in Poland, then appropriate taxes are going specifically there.Yeah because they know that this customer is there. But I know it only from the perspective of selling subscriptions or products on the digital. Is there anything like this? N.

Lorenzo
Simply not for physical goods. Not for physical goods. It’s the VAT of where you’re shipping from applies until a certain limit, which is different per country, of course, and that would make it simple. But if they many of the ones I have in mind, it is €35,000. So for example, if I have my warehouse in Italy. Yeah, yeah. And I want to sell to French consumers.

Piotrek
Okay.

Lorenzo
So until I ship from Italy then until 35,000. Euros per year. Of revenue, I apply the Italian VAT. Yeah. Okay. And I declare in Italy and it’s. Okay. Once they go over that limit, then I need to. Open a VAT number in France and declare everything in France, even though I’m shipping from Italy. Now.

Piotrek
Even though that we are in Europe.

Lorenzo
And be like exact.

Piotrek
Equal for all the businesses.

Lorenzo
Everywhere. But then, you start to get this size, then it’s the time. Where you start saying, Well then my again, my customers don’t want to pay €20 per shipment and want to have the thing next day and not three days later. So I need to open a warehouse in France. The moment you open a warehouse in France. then you need to anyway to get. The French VAT number and do all the VAT paperwork in. France. And then they pay French VAT, not Italian anymore, but you have to. Declare it every month and the whole process.

Piotrek
Process is there. even though that there is a lot of challenges on the way, you run successfully this, company remotely, which is a very important element to emphasize because the operations that some years ago would require you to physically go to a warehouse or physically go to the production facility or to meet your customer and like shake your hand, like tell all we have this and that. Now, it’s even before the pandemic. It’s was quite easy and accessible, but also from the perspective of businesses to accept fact that the whole relationship is done by phone calls that you do quite often. Yeah. And emails because that’s the two tools that you can use. Can you tell me more of this setup. Like do you plan or in terms of the hours per day that you say okay no more than let’s say 6 hours of like talking on the phone and typing emails and then what tools are what solutions did you apply to decrease the amount of hours? Because you said earlier that you don’t want to work as hard as before. Just focus on those KPIs and once you’re 85, the percentage of that every quarter. So what is the set up for you

Lorenzo
we started selling online. As I described, but. We were quite successful so relatively quickly. Maybe six months later, we’ve got a call from the distributor in Italy. So we had one physical meeting with the distributor. and then they started buying from us and then we developed from there. we had a bit of mix too sometimes. So not everything was purely online or purely remotely, I guess, have been seeing the. distributor maybe once a year to just talk about the general state of business and before the pandemic. Now in the last two, three years, not even that, but before. And they are buying maybe 60% of our products. And I met them once a year. Then I have other. Customers that I never. Met. That we just talked on the phone and they’ve seen the product online and we send brochures. By email and and they buy.

We have the online customers that, of course. Are online. so I would say that. Yes, most of the business, with very rare exceptions, are like this. You know, I went to. Indonesia a couple times.To meet with the production Company. Now we’re doing part of the production in Italy. So I had a few meetings with this Italian partner to do some production there. But again, I would say. Overall in eight years. Maybe I had 20 face to face meetings Max for this business.

Piotrek
Busin, which is a good ratio.

Lorenzo
Pretty good rate. Yes.

Piotrek
Uh huh.

Lorenzo
so that’s, that now in terms of. Reducing the amount of. Work, yeah, this is still, an ongoing goal, to. Be honest, because yes, yeah, I mean, I’ve been doing whatever needed to be done without really a lot of thoughts on how to reduce things. Of course, I externalise a lot of things. I did things myself in the beginning and then externalize them. So, well, let’s see, we starting. From, The whole social media presence, social media marketing, Google campaigns, Facebook campaigns, things like that. I started doing all of these myself in the beginning, and then now I use others. I mean, I pay people to do that. But My goal is not to hire. Anybody. Yeah, to not to have anybody officially hired by the company, but to have, of course, the contractors and freelancers that do different parts. To give you another example. the packaging. Design was initially done by my wife because she’s been doing graphic design at one point in her career, even though she’s not just doing that full time. And then at one point we got the professionals graphic . designer to do the packaging, of course. so a lot of things like that, right? obviously the. Logistics includes. Also customer service for the shipments. Mm hmm. So the company that takes care of the warehousing and the preparing the shipment, they also take care of answering customers emails related to. Where is my shipment, why did they come is it. stuck somewhere and all that. So that’s a full package and they take care of that. so I would say that nowadays I talk to the big customers, to the, you know, the big distributors, especially in new countries, but also in the existing. Countries I manage forecasting. Of, you know, what to buy, when to buy, how many ., . things like that. And new product development because we have new products coming up. We’re working with this development company, with this production company in Italy to develop new products. So I work on these topics and everything else is outsourced, maybe being quite automated. I mean, the process of outsourcing also a little bit more of day by day, larger customer interactions

and also the new customers that, you know, like small shops or restaurants who want to buy. That’s also taken care by another person . . outside.

So , yeah, I’m moving. I’m getting to the point where. I’m considering more and more to have a full time. Still freelance, not. Hired, but a full time assistant basically that takes care of a lot of the. Let me call it commercial back end assistant somebody who takes care of all the customer interactions basically.

Piotrek
But that would be like a virtual assistant. Yes, that is like replying to emails. Yes. Picking up the phone.

Lorenzo
Exactly.

Piotrek
And then only nudging you when when it’s really, really important.

Lorenzo
Exactly. That it, you know, we have a person. Who’s going in that direction and I plan to continue doing that, to have less involvement in that side of the business and continuing the new product. developments. and the new countries.

Piotrek
Development very nice. So in terms of the very peculiar, . idea of work life balance, do you feel now that you, are definitely in a better situation than you were before in the corporate world?

Lorenzo
I’m 100% or 200% better.

Piotrek
Okay.

Lorenzo
I also lost like ten kilos. You’ve seen my. Picture.

Piotrek
Okay.

Lorenzo
So yeah, yeah. my Work life balance is much, much better. I think there’s still as I said, I still want to improve it. I still need to reduce some hours. I still feel that I did not delegate enough in the last few years and I should have, but I’m improving on that. But still I’m I would say that I am now because we didn’t talk about it. We also in the meantime, we had another little start up on the side. So we have another company that started in these years that sells . Yeah, sells the sake. Japanese. Rice wine. This is not only us, it us. Together with another couple that took a. Different path. And in fact sucked up a lot of my energy for quite a while. More than the Zen Pasta . company was making most of their money, but this new start up used a lot more energy. . .. ., . Not . everything starts as smoothly. And then as fast as we did with Zen pasta. So in the process of toning down. Both of them in terms of amount of. Hours. I would say that now I’m around. On average. Maybe. 5 hours a day, something like that. Some days more, some less of course. But, yeah, I’d like to get to 2 to 3 per day. I think the 4 hours per week is a little bit of a. Stretch of a tagline or a very lofty goal that. I think I would achieve. But, Yeah, two, 3 hours per day. Would be my realistic and real goal.

Piotrek
Which, to be fair Tim Ferriss is repeating this everytime. That’s the title of the book is just the most catchy title that you could find at the actually do the research what amount of hours per workweek is most attention grabbing. And it was never about specifically the number. Yeah that’s if you work for 4 hours and 15 minutes you are a complete failure. You know, get back to your corporate life. It’s more about finding your own journey. And it’s also, I think of having the freedom of working one day a week, you know, for 12 hours because you decide to and you feel like doing something that really is intriguing. You really don’t want to stop working because that’s your precious little baby that you are creating here. And then the next two days you can do like one hour something else or completely switch the order of things. Because yeah, I think part of the freedom that we have . as the digital nomads, so slow -mads that are like slowly moving from one place to another is to be in control of your time of the day. Yeah, of course. Because this is what we have.

Lorenzo
Yeah. Time as they say in the book, time is the most precious. Commodity nowadays.

Piotrek
Because you cannot double it.

Lorenzo
Yeah. You can not increase it, you can always increase. Money, you can never . increase time.

Piotrek
exactly exactly.

Lorenzo
The time is very. precious and. We should treat it. With respect. I’m not always good at it. As I said, I have a tendency to get worked up on. Things and then I want to finish. I want to do more the more. But It’s important every once in a while to have reset. And then say, no,I shouldn’t be doing this. I should find somebody else that can do this. And it’s a difficult balance to. Achieve. I think it’s a good goal to have.

Piotrek
Yeah. I think it’s a very good point to get to our last topic because exploring the world and creating your career. Both of those things can be very draining can be fascinating but they can take up a huge chunk of our life. And I’d like to discuss to talk about this last bit of the digital nomad journey to the people I am recording these podcasts. What do you do to chill? What do you do to wind down I know that you do some meditation, that you do some didgeridoo. Yes. So how do you see it and how what is the one thing that is truly calming you. down ..

Lorenzo
well, I have to say there’s several, things, but yeah, what you were hinting at in the last, I would say 2 to 3 years, I would say since we moved to Tenerife, this is where I don’t. Know, because. O the island or not, but this is where. I discovered a lot of those. things. Like you said, yoga. Meditation. playing didgeridoo, which is a kind of meditation for me. so I do definitely. Well, several of those things that typically I try to either meditate or play didgeridoo for up an hour to an hour in the morning before starting to work. That’s my again, my goal, I cannot always do it every morning, but I try.

so you have that. You have of course. I exercise Also. I try in the middle of my day to find an hour to exercise. And also I. Find exercising extremely boring. So I always. Exercise with,reading a podcast or an audiobook. Usually an audiobook. And in my ears, so I can at least learn something while I exercise.

Piotrek
Extremely boring.

Lorenzo
Yes. but it’s not helping me. With the chill topic. Actually, the chill topic is meditation, didgeridoo, and also sailing. I mean, I still. Live in the same boat and. I love to go out and sailing. So it’s not a one hour thing. Usually it’s more of a one day thing. But of course when I’m in the water and now we’re in the middle of a five day. Passage and that really. Takes your mind out of all the business and all the issues and all that.

Piotrek
All that, and even more, because we are offline even when we try to connect the satellite phone.

Lorenzo
So it doesn’t really work.

Piotrek
So at least for now, maybe in the near future things will change. But for now we are very, offline, very disconnected from the world, which is sometimes very desired. one last thing before we finish. Do, you schedule things like going to the spa or going to the some retreats that you, that you really need to do this like every three months

Lorenzo
I don’t schedule it. You know as per se.I don’t really think about it in terms of scheduling it, but I do do like them. Lately I’ve done or I’ve. Discovered tantra retreats that I like. But Actually a very good friend of mine does. aguahara. Which is a sort of massage in the. Water. Which is also very interesting, very I like it because of the spa for. That for example, but. Also travelling in different ways. I mean not only sailing but and again with COVID . . it’s more difficult, but taking a weekend off. Not just off the business but also off the kids. Is very important because it’s an aspect that. We didn’t touch but that also. Requires a lot of time and that emotional, challenging and mental challenging.

So yeah, taking a weekend off. And. Go away and you know, do something different, it’s it’s always very important. So yeah, I do schedule a lot of these other activities.

Piotrek
I think you have a lot of occasion to do this when you move to Bali because that will be your next destination. This, what you’re , planning to relocate So, to yet another very interesting place. What do you want to do there?

Lorenzo
One idea is still under, under the works ,? But one idea is. If we can reduce the amount of time spent on the two businesses that I mentioned. So far will be to open a co-living in Bali digital nomad coliving Of course there are many already. I’m aware of that. But there is also a big market because it’s definitely one of the places where many digital nomads go.

And also because we started loving. All these, let’s say. Spiritual activities and. Meditation and yoga and. tantra and this and that. The idea would be. To have a co-living that has a spiritual twist to it. And obviously Bali is the. most obvious have the most obvious target for this, the. Most obvious target for something like that. So at the moment is still, a thought , a consideration. we’ve done a bit of. Research around. It, but we need to go there and then see things with our eyes and see how it is there today. And of course there’s COVID in the middle of everything. So at the. Moment, apparently everything is closed. But we.

Expect that things will come back up. Also there. So maybe it’s a good time to invest, but we don’t know yet. We will need to invest in something. We need to go and see. The environment. And how things are on the field. So if we go in that direction, it’s a completely new business. adventure because so far all our businesses were mostly online. And actually to make an aside to that , the idea to do it. Is also because we are taking a break from. The moving around a lot because our son now is ten and then when he will be I mean, we want. To have we want him to have an. Experience of the teenage years in one location because we wanted to travel around when he was a kid. When he was a kid, because it’s easier for him to make friends and move to start. A new life everytime. , we move to a new place. But the more. We get closer to the teenage, it’s important to have a stable group of friends, a stable location. So now we know that in front of us we will have these 8-10 years in my place. So we said, Well if we’re going to stay for ten years in one place, then let’s, uh.

Piotrek
Let’s choose a very nice place.

Lorenzo
The place we like it. And also let’s consider making a fixed location. Business?Maybe instead of us moving around, we will have other people coming to us. And so we will still experience different cultures and different ideas and different, Yeah, different feelings. But by having other people coming to us, since we cannot move for a few years.

Piotrek
And then of course if you decide to keep the boat there, then you can move around the islands or Southeast Asia or even Australia, of course, is not that far.Yeah . So.

Lorenzo
No, we plan to I mean,we still looking into the idea,but . It would be nice to bring the boat there and to not use it as a primary. Home. There anymore,but use it as a way to explore the islands and the area and, in our time off. But so that’s still a work in progress. We’re still exploring this idea, but. Yeah, it’s a possibility.

Piotrek
I do wish that everything will come as it should be and you will fit to whatever challenges the world will present you. And I’m curious to see how it goes. Maybe you will have a sequel to this conversation,in a few years, and then see.

Lorenzo
Hopefully, I hope to have many new things happening. The next few years, this new adventure. I think we’ll we’re doing everything to make sure that my life is not boring. Oh.

Piotrek
Most definitely. Yeah. Thank you very much Lorenzo.

Lorenzo
Thank you.