Mateusz Urbanowicz – Polish artist of “Your Name” anime & Tokyo Storefronts watercolor book on freelancing and animation

Piotrek

today I'm talking with Mateusz Urbanowicz, my dear friend from Poland, who I met around 15 years ago in the comics club that I started in Katowice .. And this is the time where I actually first saw Mac book that Mateusz brought. And later on he studied at the Polish Japanese Institute of Information Technology, that allowed him to graduated with honors from Kobe Design University in Japan, and this led to his work at Comix Wave Films, one of the most known anime studios because they created Your Name, the highest grossing anime of all times. And Mateusz was involved in this production. Now he is based in Tokyo and married to Kana,who is also a talented artist. Welcome to the show Mateusz.

Mateusz

Hey, hi all. Hi everyone. I'm really happy and excited to be here.Thank you for inviting me.

Piotrek

How are you doing today?

Mateusz

I'm okay, actually. Today is one of my days of kind of rest. So it's nice to have something different to do than just stay in front of the computer and do stuff. I can just stay in front of a computer and record the podcast. Yeah,

Piotrek

Nice.

Mateusz

but no, I mean, I'm okay, actually. Yeah.

Piotrek

We are both Polish and we use Polish language to talk to each other. But because our daily activity and our work is around the globe and we use primarily English, that's why this conversation is recorded in English. And we do use our Polish names. So Mateusz and not Matthew and Piotrek, not Peter, to be clear why we are choosing this or not another.

Mateusz

Also, I just want to point out that most of our readers, most of our fan base, but I don't like so much the word fan, but most of our readers or people who watch my YouTube videos, for example, use English language. And even if sometimes I get comments like, Oh, your English sounds like your Russian or your English

Piotrek

that

Mateusz

sounds like

Piotrek

is.

Mateusz

your Japanese

Piotrek

Just

Mateusz

or whatever. Yeah, I prefer making videos in English just because more people can actually use the information, get the information that I want to do and to be honest, I'm really surprised that you going to do like the transcription and translation because that is actually a pain in doing like captions for videos. takes so much effort, that I don't have really time and energy to do this, sadly.

Piotrek

What was the art style that mostly resonated with you when you were a kid?

Mateusz

That's kind of weird, actually, because my parents told me not to watch anime and not to watch like, Japanese cartoons. And as you might remember, we had the Japanese cartoons with Italian dialogue with Polish, like voices over that because These were imported from Italy, like really cheaply. And we had like Capitan, Tsubasa or whatever with Italian voices and with the Polish voice on top of that. so I don't know, maybe my parents saw that and were like, okay, I don't know what it is, and it's kind of too weird. But they allowed me to watch Cartoon Network with all these crazy cartoons that were on at the time, like Cow and Chicken or whatever.

Which. Which, Broke my mind, probably. Yeah, but I don't know most Of what I remember. We're just a few comics that I had. We didn't have so much, comics at my house. But I had the Polish adventures of, Mr. Kleks, I think.

Piotrek

It would.

Mateusz

Which is like this kind of weird bluish monster that did a lot of, like, weird things. And I had some Asterix comics and I had one, comic that was really important to me, which was, I think it doesn't have an English translation, so, it was only released in French and in Polish, which is weird. It's a Belgian comics made by a person that's called Bédu, and it's called in Polish. probably how do you translate it

Piotrek

No, just say it in Polish. And then we'll figure it out.

Mateusz

"Boska Jabłoń" so god- like apple tree ..

Piotrek

Which sounds weird.

Mateusz

Which sounds Weird. But it's actually like a really nice and simple fantasy comic, with. Simple and nice, characters, something Ghibli like I would say, something between like Asterix and Ghibli or whatever.Like these kind of weird fantasy aimed for children. And I saw this and I was really into this. I only had this one volume, which is like one of five, I think. And they read it like hundreds and hundreds of times.

Piotrek

And

Mateusz

I also had one comic from, my grandfather, about , the city where he was raised. And that was a city in France, which is one of these comics that, you know, the city council, asks, manga comic artist to do a comic about the city, but it was actually really well made. And, it also was like they had only like five or six comics, but I read them all the time. So when I started to, to draw, when I started to do, like my own characters or whatever, they were like this strange mix of Cartoon Network, with. bande dessinée. So like with French and Belgian comics.

Piotrek

Mm hmm. And did you immediately try to replicate what you saw because of how influential it was for you?

Mateusz

At some level, Yeah. I had, like, sketches of Ed, Edd and Eddie in my sketchbook. Which is another like weird cartoon networks series .. But most of the time I did things, I did like chairs and I did like pipes, like weird robots or a lamp or whatever. Weird like I would do, like arrows showing how they move or how they close and how they open. So I was more drawn into drawing things and buildings than doing characters, I guess.

Piotrek

So how about backgrounds? Because right now or I know that's one of your specialization is into drawing into painting this landscape beautiful pictures. So was it also something that you started back then it came later?

Mateusz

A bit later, I guess. But, you know, we always have, as an artist, we always have this kind of probably a period when we want to draw something cool. So we start to do like cool characters or cool robots or whatever. So I had this also. But, at some point I don't know, I started to be really excited about just doing, landscapes and buildings and stuff that I could render in watercolors and like, pencil in watercolors. So I would just take some interesting photos of, I don't know, a nice castle or whatever that I found in the book and just make some paintings of that or try to do some, like really simple watercolors of things that I saw. So when they went to, I don't know, the Polish lakeside and spent their, my, summer vacations, I would do some sketches and stuff and so on. So at some point I stopped doing characters almost entirely and started doing like, yeah, landscapes.

Piotrek

I think this is an interesting point to connect something that is important to you. I know the whole journey around electronics and machines, computers,dev. And so before we move there. Do you see the difference between creating digital pieces and traditional ones, or is a blend for you? How do you view it?

Mateusz

I think it's I think it's different. It's a different part of my brain that works, I think, because when I do things, by hand, when I just use my pencils or watercolors or whatever, I don't aim for perfection. I aim for something that's okay, enough. So I like it. But when I start on a piece that's digital, I aim to be as polished as possible, and that involves a bit of a different approach. I know that I will spend like three days on this piece just like poking at it, all the time, like for 12-hours a day or whatever, until it looks like perfect. But with watercolors or with pencils, with when I'm sketching or just drawing, it's impossible to just, spend so much time to polish . and polish and polish it more. So I kind of accept more that, there is this physical limit of what I can do. and this is really good, actually. so I think that I had a period in which I went for the digital and I thought that this was just like the God tool, of all art that will, like, m me the best artist. And when I spent just a lot of time. Yeah, just having the layers in Photoshop and Undo, is like, just, having a superpower. But this is like one of the superpowers that at some point you're like, I don't think it was actually good for me to have it, because it just gives you so much of this creative freedom that it renders you kind of full of doubt about every line you do.

Piotrek

Yeah, I do think it's kind of important for anyone who is trying to to hone their artist skills to kind of understand why the physical,tra art has those boundaries. And the boundary can be your canvas or your piece of paper or just the simple fact that you cannot put a hundred layers of the same color into one place because you will make a hole into the paper. Yeah,the canvas is just physically impossible, so you need to respect the material where you are creating and then playing with the tools that they are using while with the computers. The boundary is always going forward here because there is always a new update, a new feature, a new something that will give you more possibilities and you never know where to stop. Yeah, if you are without this, this kind of self-discipline.

Mateusz

Yeah, that. That's why probably

recently I have been. Even if I'm if I'm creating something digitally, I try to keep things as simple as possible. So most of the time I would use my iPad and just the procreate. And sometimes I just don't bother with the layers at all. I just paint like I would with gouache or whatever, and I try to keep it. Yeah. On a single layer or layer or just use few of them. And I try to keep it as simple as possible. It was completely different than what I did in the animation studio.

Piotrek

Mm hmm. Before we move to your experience in anime, please tell me what's your best couple computers or devices that you as a kid.

Mateusz

I had an Amiga 500 with the memory upgrade that brought it to one megabyte of RAM with a dedicated monitor. And we had a lot of floppies with stuff, but that was in this, time that almost all the cool kids had PCs already. So I was the, I was the kid that came to the let's learn computers lessons in our school when all the computers were already PCs. And when I told my teacher dad that I had an Amiga and he was like, Oh, this is not a computer. It's not a real computer, you know?

Which is of course bullshit,because , for example, a lot of the 3D effects in the first 3D movies were done on Amiga computers, and these were like one of the first, computers with graphical interfaces that you could use in Europe at a normal price, which had color, which had a lot of actual power more sometimes than the first PCs. so yeah, but I was just a kid. I didn't know how to use it and I played games on it and it did some stuff also. I first had an Amiga and then I moved to a PC. I had this period when I was actually learning, I.T., so I was like making PCs by, my own. I was working in a computer repair shop for a period of time. And, and then I was like, Oh, fuck it. I just want to use my computer. I don't want to repair it every five days. So I moved to a Mac. and, I have not seen the inside of a computer since.

Piotrek

Same story for me in regards of, like, looking under the hood.

Mateusz

Of course, they are not perfect, but, I had a lot of problems with my PC's, at that time, and even though I bought a used Power Mac G4, which was older than what I was using at the time, I had a lot more stability and power using at the time Corel Painter, to draw and to paint. Then what I had on my, on my PC. So.

Piotrek

Was it the Mac Book that you brought to the comics club

Mateusz

No, that was like a huge tower kind of blue thing that had two handles on it. And it weighed like 20 kilos, I think. But yeah, it was it was great. It was actually great. You had to connect it, just monitor or whatever to use it.

Piotrek

Nice. So could you tell me the story that's connected with your uncle? If I remember correctly,he was the one that tinker with some hardware and electronics.

Mateusz

It was my grandfather, actually. Yeah. When I was a kid, I would often go to my grandfather or my grandparents place and they would allow me to play with all the electronic parts that were there. Like not only electronic parts, but like with tools and stuff, because he was this kind of an engineer that at work he did technical drawings like parts and pipes and stuff. But at home he was this kind of DIY guy who you would call when your TV broke or your radio was off or something happened with your pipes in your house and you would just call him and he would just go there and repair your stuff, as a hobby, actually. And he had all these kinds of cool tools in his house and all kinds of cool parts, like vacuum tubes or all kinds of resistors and screws and nails and hammers and, electronics like testers or whatever. so while my parents were talking to my grandparents and just having a coffee, whatever. I would just bang at a stool with a hammer or play around with resistors or whatever. but, in the end, I never was like

100% into electronics, maybe because I could not understand it fully. bu I always was kind of gravitating to art and doing art and drawing in my free time.

Piotrek

So when you were a kid and your grandfather was allowing you to play with the tools, do you actually consider this as a the same part of the world that the computer came from? Or was it for you, like completely separate? A you you considered this as, you know, just nice activity up at grandfather's house and then the computer is something completely different.

Mateusz

Yeah, I think it was it was completely separate at that time. I was really afraid of of computers actually, because I was told that they, they were like these really expensive things that. our family cannot afford. So, when I was first brought to a friend's house and he had like a game console probably a Commodore or whatever, I was so afraid of it that I refused to touch it. I was probably. Yeah, he, he, he, he kept playing, and then he invited me to just play it. But I was so afraid that I didn't touch it. But when my parents got me the Amiga and it was like a second hand thing and it was my own, so I could do whatever I wanted with it. I slowly became more accustomed to computers as a thing that I can actually touch and use. A, and it will do the stuff that I want and play some games on it.

Piotrek

And also coding programming that at the same time.

Mateusz

Yeah, I, When I got my first P.C., I started trying to write my own apps. I did some c, but I started doing a lot of programming language that probably no one remembers right now, Delphi or Delphi, which was like, this object driven thing you could drag and drop, like, boxes and buttons and and program what they do. It was really easy to write your own app, and I had a lot of fun with this. but I always kind of hit the wall of I don't have the knowledge needed to make it more usable or more complicated. There was also always this kind of barrier. We didn't have the internet. we could only go to a library that had books from, like, 30 years before. which. Yeah, which told you about computers, which, perforated cards or whatever. so I, I didn't have so much money also to go and buy books about programming, which were really expensive. I still remember like these books with, the animals on them, which were O'Reilly ,? I think the series of books about programming and computers, which were, kind of expensive. So I always kind of hit this wall that I didn't know what to do next. And probably, that was one of the reasons why I turned to drawing

Piotrek

Hmm. So how about the computer graphics in general? Becau. Now it's a necessity. You don't know how to photoshop . . ., it's it's considered to being an . analphabet. Yeah. So how do you step into the world of creating your own computer graphics

Mateusz

I actually started with a comic. I did a comic that was called Zmiana Epsilon, which was like just the words that I picked up at school. And I started it by drawing by hand. And then coloring it with a mouse. And soon I was like, okay, I cannot do it with a mouse. So I bought a really cheap, like, graphic tablet, which was like the Pentagram brand. It was not very it was not very good, but whatever. I was able to use it with gimp or Gimp to color my comic and do some graphics. And then later I started using Crow Painter. But the big thing was for me was that I'm in the school next to the high school that I was at the time. They had a presentation of the Wacom tablet and I went there with my friend to see how they work on tablets performed and how I can draw with them. So I sat in front of the computer and my friend was on my right side. I really remember this and I started to to just draw and paint on this computer and explain to him because he was just like an electronics student who was programming, not drawing. So I explained to him, okay, you pursue hubris here. You make like line like this, a here we have a tree and then you make like clouds and change the background and you have a simple picture. And I turn around and there's like 20 people behind me looking at, what the hell is this guy doing on this computer? We cannot use these tablets. And he's the only one who can use these things here.

Piotrek

Haha.

Mateusz

And what was more excellent was that the guy who actually was selling the Wacom tablets, he was like, Oh, okay, would you like to come with us and present to people? How do you use these tablets on or like events and stuff? Because these guys were just like office guys who imported and sold these tablets and they knew stuff about computers, but they didn't know how to draw and how to use this stuff, how to use these tools creatively. So they were like, Oh, we would like you. We would like to have you to present these tablets.

Piotrek

Very nice. Di you go on some tour around Poland with them and, like, presented on some big events?

Mateusz

Yeah, I worked for them for three, four years, I think. And, on like busy months. I would go to like three or four or five events a month to present tabloids in all kinds of places in Poland to big fairs and to Polish Art Academy in Krakow, for example, when I would present , the tablets before,teachers and students that were really older than me, which was very stressful.And I would go to events that were for photographers, for example, and I would pretend to the tablets to people that were really older and experience in their field of, creative things than me. So that was a really, really weird and stressful experience. But, I learned a lot because I had to really quickly and I had to learn a lot of software and I had to learn a lot of hardware stuff. I had to know what I'm talking about. So, it was not only just me drawing a tree on the computer and, look how pretty it is. But, I would get a lot of difficult questions, and I had to know what I'm talking about, so.

Piotrek

So how did you actually pick this up? Like, did you play with tablets, long enough with this Pentagram thing that you were fluent than anyone else. And for you, it was just a second nature to to use it

Mateusz

Yeah, at some point, you know, it's like a, Any other tool. So, it's like a mouse. So you have a mouse that's made by a Pentagram, and it has a mouse that's made by Wacom. The one made by Wacom is better. It has better specs, but the basics are the same.It's like showing a mouse to someone who never used one. So You can tell them. You did this, and this is why it's better. But then there are questions like, okay, but if I want to correct, a spot on my photo, when I took a wedding photo of 100 photos in Photoshop quick how I can do this better with a tablet and then you have to explain him. Okay, so it's more ergonomic, it faster, it's more accurate. you can do, batch editing like this, or you can make it Like here you can use brushes with the pressure sensitivity, which you cannot do with a mouse. this stuff that, you have to test yourself first. So I would get a lot of these tablets at home from the company while these tablets were not use like demo units or whatever. And I would spend like hours and hours and hours just playing around on different, different applications with these tablets to just know them. And I could from my memory, I knew how much pressure, sensitivity levels, which model had and, and so on.

Piotrek

Yea. So in terms of this kind of tools, are there any other old school or retro things that you wish they're still supported or you would like to bring them back if it's possible.

Mateusz

I think that we were kind of starting our digital adventure in a time that was really interesting because the standards were not so defined yet, so there was still some place for experimentation. So we would see a lot of weird and crazy products being made and disappear the next day while in the nineties and on the beginning, on the 2000 and so on. So I'm kind of sad right now that the kind of digital market lost a bit,this adventureness and this, Yeah. And you have the iPhone, the smartphone you have the bigger this the tablet and if you want something bigger you have the laptop which starts at 13 inches and goes to 16 or 17 or whatever. And then when you want still something more powerful, you buy an iMac or like a strong PC. But I don't think that a lot of people still uses PCs. I for 3D maybe, but. Yeah. And that's it. There is nothing more. And when you want a small thing for to take with you you just take an iPad and it's nice because you can do a lot of things with just one device. Yeah I can do a lot of stuff with my iPad for example, and I'm really happy with it. But, I kind of am sad that, we had in the 1990s. Have you had, for example, the PDAs? I had a PDA, I had the Palm PDAs, and I was really happy with them. I played a lot of games with them and did stuff. well, I had them with me all the time. And then, you had the M.P. three players that came and went and disappeared, and you had, PCs that came and went and disappeared. And I'm kind of sad that all these, niche products disappear.

Piotrek

Okay. Mateusz. Could you tell me then, how was the transition from you? Studying. Wo in Poland and getting to know about Japanese culture, Japanese language, but then later getting the scholarship to move to Japan and to study in Kobe?

Mateusz

When I was in Poland, I wanted to do comics and stuff. So, as you know, I joined it the same comic study group. as you were in, where I met you for the first time,

Piotrek

Oh, actually, it was a comic club that I started called KMX in

Katowice in this cultural center called Pałac Młodzieży ,, which is a Youth Palace. And I'm really proud that you are one of those artists that joined me and created comics.

Mateusz

and I went to some events and stuff, but I wanted to learn more, and actually I wanted to go to a university that had something similar to, the computer graphics and, painting digitally. so I went to the Polish Japanese Institute of Computer Technology, which was a school near me, and it also had this, course that had a bit of this digital creation there.

And I didn't learn so much at school, but I had a friend there or two friends there that were really interested in Japanese culture and especially animation and comics. And they showed me a lot of good Japanese animation, and then I started to just look for it myself. And I was so much interested in this that I actually went with one of these friends to Japan for just like two weeks on, a trip and. To to to see how it looks and so on. And, when I finished my university in Poland, I was really Not expecting how hard it would be to get a job in Poland in this field. They wanted to work, so I wanted to do creative things. I wanted to paint. I wanted to draw. I would settle for creative design, but even in this field, I could just find nothing. I was not living in a small town. I was close to Katowice , ,, which is a big city. But even there I could only find, jobs that were like making calendars or making,

Piotrek

Yeah.

Mateusz

Like preparing stuff for print, not making it not creating things, but just preparing things for print, like choosing fonts and making like business cards or whatever. So I was really in a pinch, actually, because I finished university. And then what?

But I learned about this program that was from the Japanese Ministry of Health and Education, which was for students that would like to study in Japan. And because I finished my undergraduate course in Poland and I had good grades, I could apply for this. And I did. And probably because I was the only guy that wanted to go to Japan to actually draw comics. I was chosen as one of the eight people that were, to go from like 3000 people.

Piotrek

Oh,

Mateusz

Wh was a lot.

Piotrek

Yeah.Yeah . it's a huge number. So all of those 3000 people, they want to go to Japan to do what?

Mateusz

To study Japanese. To study culture. To learn about a lot of really serious stuff like electronics, robotics, medicine or like, architecture or whatever. And I was the only one that went for the last kind of. How do you call it? Like a talk in the

Piotrek

Intervie.

Mateusz

embassy interview in the embassy with a comic in my hand. And I was like, okay, this is a comic that I did. I had the one nice printed thing and I showed them, okay, I made this color comic, but I would like to study more. So I would like to go to Japan to study comics and animation. And they were actually surprised about what I had with me. And

Piotrek

Hmm.

Mateusz

probably it kind of stuck with them when they actually had to decide who will go. And yeah, I was Chosen.

Piotrek

Do you know if this program is still running or was it just once at the time or how does it work?

Mateusz

From what I know, it's still there, but I don't know now because of course, everything

Piotrek

Yeah.

Mateusz

you

Piotrek

We are living

Mateusz

know,

Piotrek

in a different

Mateusz

but.

Piotrek

world.

Mateusz

Yeah, the next scholarships are still there. From what I know.

Piotrek

Okay. So every year or every other year.

Mateusz

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Piotrek

Sen someone. Okay. So then in Kobe, you are studying really hard. accor to Local Japanese standards. But still you have some spare time to create your own productions. So can you tell us more about this period of time?

Mateusz

When I first went to Japan, I was just a research student, which translates to "Do whatever you want".

I first had to learn Japanese, so I spent like half a year just studying Japanese from scratch. I didn't know any Japanese, so I first had to go to like, fast course of Japanese for international student thing for half a year. And then I went to the proper university where I was supposed to study like comics and animations. And because I was just a research student, I could choose any class that they wanted to participate in. So I chose some animation classes and some storytelling classes and manga classes and just went to, classes with undergraduate students. I didn't understand like probably 70% of what was said because I was still really not so fluent in Japanese, and they just speak like regular Japanese. This is just a regular class for Japanese people. So I had a hard time to understand a lot of things, but yeah, it was nice because around me were people that were just considering being professional comic artists, for example, like 30 people in the class, and all of them want to be animators or whatever. So it was an interesting thing to see that one. In Japan, this is treated as just a regular career path that you can follow and

Piotrek

Yeah.

Mateusz

be a professional illustrator. But the second thing was that I'm actually not so bad. I thought that, okay, I'm not like the best around,

Piotrek

Mm hmm.

Mateusz

but I'm not a person that cannot do anything like these Japanese illustrators do.

Piotrek

Mm hmm.

Mateusz

So. Y.

Piotrek

Can you tell me more about the actual style? Because. Whenever you are interested in the Japanese culture as a fan of manga or anime, you tend to see it's only from the perspective. Oh This is the style that every Japanese production has to have big eyes and then like maybe talk about superpowers and big robots and some crazy monsters, blah blah blah. But of course when you are inside and you are saying that you are studying among other people who are becoming to be those professional artists. Is there a thing that you need to follow this Japanese principle of creation or you can actually develop your own more European or more American style.

Mateusz

You can do whatever you want. But of course, there's a "but" coming. But if you want to be accepted, you have to do art that will be accepted.What does that mean? Is that you have to do Japanese. If you want to do Japanese comics, you have to do something that looks like Japanese comics. And for us for foreigners , ,, it's really hard to do There's. The language barrier there is the style barrier, just the color choices barrier, we do everything different. And because the students around me were raised from like babies. On these animations and animations, series and comics, they had this in their blood. So this is a really stupid example. But, if something falls down in a comic. You have to write this bank or woop or whatever, like sound. How do you do this in Japanese?

What word, Do you use words what letters do you write them? Like whatever you can just write.

Piotrek

Equ of it.

Mateusz

Yeah. So you have to know this. And they know this because they read tons of comics until now. So for them, it's really easy to just use these references and the standards that they already have. But for someone that suddenly wants to do a comic in Japanese. You stumble all the time. And it was impossible for me actually to do a comic that would be accepted as a manga. So as a Japanese comics, I

------ How Mateusz got the job at CoMix Wave Films ------

Mateusz

tried and, I mostly failed. and there is also, of course, this kind of most popular, cute, fancy style of drawing that everyone would like to accomplish. every one of the students would like to be. Cool,

cutesy, rea nice style that will be popular. But yeah, again, for a foreign artist, it's really difficult to pull it off.

Piotrek

Do you think that animation then would be easier? Only because you don't need to write the sound of falling object.

Mateusz

I don't have to do dialogues and I don't have to do sounds. That is a big advantage for me. But also what was a big advantage was that I could use my digital skills.

Piotrek

Hmm. Hmm.

Mateusz

Everything that I did so far was painted in colour on the tablets, so I was better at painting like animation backgrounds and characters and color and then just doing what the manga students did. So drawing everything with, lead the pen and ink

Piotrek

H. Hmm.

Mateusz

and tones on paper and so on. So,

Piotrek

Okay. You had some advantage

Mateusz

Yeah. And also my, professor. that was looking over me. He was like, Oh, you know what? Your comics are animation-. -like, they look like storyboards for animations. The camera is always kind of. Like frames from a movie rather than using the comic language of the manga. I was thinking a lot in frame. Like , still frames from an animation rather than Pie of a comic, because a comic is a really weird medium because it can use all these kind of shortcuts to say things You just have to put some flowers in the background to say that the character is feeling excited or feeling love or whatever. It's just a little effect here and there will tell you a lot, you don't have to show things. You can just suggest them. And I was not using these, language elements because I didn't know them. I was not raised, reading Japanese comics. So what I could do was, painting or drawing still frames from an anime because that was what I knew. so probably that's why he told me, Okay, you know what? You should really try to do an animation.

Piotrek

This is a really nice step to move forward to your job in CoMix, Wave Films. So, can you tell a bit about your, project, your own animations with short animation that you created as your, if I remember correctly,the final project the final exam, I think, for your studies. And then it was also this ticket to get into a professional big anime studio.

Mateusz

Yeah. So in the last year at my university in Japan. I had to do a final project and I decided to do an animated movie and it took me eight months to complete it and I completed it only because I didn't know it was impossible. I set myself a goal of doing, digital drone animation with the characters animated by hand with a pencil and paper, and then scanned and colored digitally. And I wanted to do the backgrounds in full digital because I like the style and the had the skill, as I said, but also because I like the animation style of, Makoto Shinkai and his animation backgrounds where digital. So I was like, okay, if I'm going to aim for something, I can aim for this because he is doing the digital thing similar to what I am doing right now. So I aimed for a short animation of 5 minutes and I think it had like 74 cuts or whatever. So I had to paint 74 digital painting backgrounds and, move the characters and composite this and record the voiceover and do the music. I didn't do the music. I found the music and so on. So the whole thing took me eight months, to do. But Because I didn't know it was impossible for one person to do such a long

------ Mateusz's beginnings at CoMix Wave Films ------

Mateusz

project without going completely wild.

I actually managed it with in hindsight with some good decisions from myself because I. kept a schedule. I kept a graph that showed me if I'm on the course or not. I did exercise. I actually had some free space in between working so I could actually go outside and do some other stuff.So I probably at that time did this instinctively, but I actually kept well, health and I managed to finish this on time. And that was well, because, there was an event in our school. To which Makoto Shinkai actually himself came with his producers to do a lecture and I feel my professors handling , this, but he never told. Invited the staff for.

Piotrek

Who knows?

Mateusz

Yeah, but I had already, a trailer version, like a 32nd version. Re. So I gave them, Blu ray disc with my, trailer version. And they saw it and they were like, okay, so maybe you could, try to come to Tokyo and see the animation studio, and maybe if you liked it when you graduate, you could, try to for a, background art position at our studio. but first you have to finish your five minute animation.

Piotrek

Of course.

Mateusz

So yeah. When I finished the University,I went to Tokyo and I then I moved to Tokyo and started working to comics wave films.

Piotrek

So the. steps towards seems to be all connected to like your choices that you made before with this primarily digital tools. Then this thinking of animation rather than the comics. and eventually, having this invite yeah to the big

Mateusz

Mm hmm.

Piotrek

anime studio and right now currently you are a freelancer, so you are no longer working for them

Mateusz

hmm.

Piotrek

which is also a big step forward. but before we move to, why and, what do you do right now? can you just,tell a short version of, how was it to be a foreigner in a established big anime, studio that is not only doing anime because 'Your Name' is, of course, this one of the big budget full feature movie that's managed to be so popular.

Mateusz

Mm hmm.

Piotrek

But beyond that,you also did other works. Yeah. So what did you do there in the CoMix? Wave Films.

Mateusz

First. When I joined there, I had to learn a lot of things and I had a chance because they actually when they joined, they finished making the previous movie. So I was kind of disappointed. But it, end up being to my advantage because in between they took a lot of smaller jobs like television, animation things and other like movie backgrounds and game backgrounds and all kinds of stuff. So I was able to learn on smaller projects how to do this the same way as the older, staff members, because I was just one member of the background team, which in full swing would have like ten, twelve people in it. So I had some time to learn. And then when "Your Name" came, I was just good enough to be one of the , core, five, six members that not only did the backgrounds, but also connected backgrounds that were made by a different studio, for example. So on this level, I didn't feel any downsides. I was just one of the members of the group. I could do what I thought I wanted to do in this animation studio. I could participate in this huge, important project, and it was great. But there was always is a "but". But When I came to Japan, my goal was to make my own stuff. So maybe comics or animations or whatever. So along, when I was just working out the backgrounds and doing my everyday work, I was also working on my own

------ Which backgrounds in Your Name were painted by Mateusz? ------

Mateusz

stories on my own projects. And for three years I tried to convince the animation studio to do even a short, like, small thing that I made and, I even, tried to participate in, like, events for young animators or whatever. programs for, beginning, young animators and so on. But, It's kind of weird because I was not ignored per se, but, none of this came to fruition. I was not told directly that you know what you are foreigner , ,. You will not be on the animation director in Japan. But I kind of started to feel this way. So I actually the last thing that I did in this animation studio was directing a small thing, but that was a thing that was commissioned to the studio. So they had to find someone that will direct it. And because that was just like a five minute short thing, it was given to me.But it was a nice experience.

Piotrek

Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Mateusz

And because I was so frustrated that I could not make my own stuff, I started just to make my own drawings and paintings in my free time. So I went

------ Challanges of creating art for high budget anime production ------

Mateusz

back to watercolors, I went back to pencils, I went back to my fountain pen and I started drawing, whatever I found interesting. And that was the Bicycle Boy series. And that was the Cold in Yokohama series. And that was the Tokyo storefront. illustrations. The first ten illustrations, which, were actually later made into a book. And making this book was one of the reasons why I actually, quit the animation studio because I wanted to make this book.

Piotrek

Aweso. So before we focus on your freelancing now,I recently only the watched Your Name? So I was blown away. I am honest as to the quality of the whole production is really top notch and. It has been years and years since I really enjoyed a full feature anime and beyond the story,which is really nice.I really did stop in couple of moments to admire the amazing backgrounds that were there

Mateusz

Thank you.

Piotrek

I am really glad to see your artwork. Of course, I cannot be sure which still is made by you or by your colleagues here in the team.

Mateusz

I made about 1/10 of all the backgrounds, which means that for the whole movie there were like 1500 backgrounds that were,painted. And then I made, I think, like 120. and they also corrected some other backgrounds that other people made. But most of the things I did were, city shots. So, backgrounds of Shinjuku. Tokyo shots with a lot of tall buildings, Tokyo Station and all kinds of these city building backgrounds. I did a bit of these other backgrounds that where the , scenes from the village. So because one of the characters living like in a small town, I did a bit of this too. Yeah. But I also did like the I don't want to spoil it so much, but yeah, it's Your Name. Probably everyone saw it already. I did the, reminiscent scene when they kind of look at the memories and it's more like a painterly drawn with pastels kind of

Piotrek

H.

Mateusz

background and I did all of these, and I also did this scene when the, how they call it <a Japanese name>. , when the stone falls from the sky and there's like this huge fireball in there, I painted this fireball. Ha ha! And they also destroyed the

------ How does the anime background workflow looks like in the big studio? ------

Mateusz

small village. Hahaha! I paint all that make up the, all the backgrounds where the explosion happened

Piotrek

Am.

Mateusz

I had a lot of fun. Yeah, but, it's completely different than doing, just your own art. Becaus of course, you have to, match your style with all the other artists.And that would be still not so bad because I just wanted to learn this way of painting either way. So that was perfect. But, you have to also match the technical requirements. So for example, when I would draw a table, I would just draw a table,but they wanted a layer for everything. So there is a layer that's the table. So there's a layer that's each leg, and for each leg there is the front and the side layer and the shadow layer and the highlight layer and a texture layer and then a bit more shadow layer. And then you have the top of the table, which has the top layer, the edge layer to highlight there,the edge highlight layer, the texture and the reflections, Everything. I would end with files that had like thousands of layers in them. An I had to learn this kind of way of doing things. Everything had to be really realistic. It had to be really true to nature. It had to be really straight. So there was no like freehand painting because all the buildings had to be really realistic. So it had to be like really straight. It had to be true to reality. So all the buildings had to be true to what they really look like in Tokyo. And that would pose some really bizarre problems sometimes, because, for example, you would have the plan for the Tokyo station, which was in construction at the time, because they were remodeling it. But the movie will be out when the station is already finished. So we had to paint the station as it would look when it's already finished the one year later. So they were like all these kinds of weird stuff that I had to care about when painting. because if I didn't do it properly, the. Background director will have to give me the background back to correct it or he would have to fix it himself, which took time and effort. So that was. Difficult.

Piotrek

And in terms of responsibility for some shots. Some elements.

Mateusz

Mm hmm.

Piotrek

you said that, for example, ther is some scene with, some Armageddon,

Mateusz

hmm.

Piotrek

and is the whole piece that you created exactly as it was created into a movie or there is so much work put by other people. Yeah, because then you could have some layers of some effects or some shadows or some, let's say, clouds that, they eventually the final output is much different from the original piece. do you know how much older people were involved into creating those shots.

Mateusz

Yeah. In the beginning, I found that there was a lot of correction done to the things that I made. But then you kind of get what the overall animation style is aiming for. And you know what the director and the background director is aiming for. And gradually you can expect what they would fix

------ Why "Mateusz Urbanowicz" is written with latin letters in the credits while everyone else is in Japanese? ------

Mateusz

and then you can make it yourself

Piotrek

Okay,

Mateusz

to,

Piotrek

Adjust.

Mateusz

year gradually you adjust and gradually it's like, okay. Today I uploaded a background and three days later the background came fixed and it didn't have any fixes, fixes. So it's like, yeah, I made it. It was perfect. But sometimes it was like, Oh, the whole sky is different.Or the colors that I was proud of were completely change or whatever. the one thing is that when you get these fixes, there are two reactions that you can have. One is like, okay,I'm just a part of a team that is making something bigger than just myself. And it's nice to participate in this big project. And some days you feel like this and some days you feel like, Oh, I don't know, I want to be an artist, but someone just takes my sky and just raises it. And I like this sky. I like this cloud. I put like

Piotrek

So true.

Mateusz

5 hours and painting this these clouds here and they just go like, delete this layer. And, uh, yeah, Some days it was really frustrating. A gradually, I don't know. Probably there is this type of a person that can, work well in this kind of environment. But I was a bit. I was getting. Down a like. They. At the time, I felt worse and worse when I was doing this and when it finished.

I feel like, o,we did something great. I really was happy that I managed to participate in that. It was a great learning experience. It was a thing that I have on my list I'm glad that I did it during my life I was really happy about that. But then you are working in the studio,

------ Why did Mateusz decide to leave CoMix Wave Animations and become an independent artists? ------

Mateusz

so when a movie ends. The next movie comes. So there is no transitional period. It's just another project that comes out and you are flooded with the request again. And you are you have again doing your you are doing again the same stuff. It's for a different project. But. Yeah, the workflow is really similar and the animation studio that I was working at, they have their own distinctive style. So most of the work they do is in this style, so nothing really changes. That's also one thing.

Piotrek

I think, It's worth to mention here a fun fact that at the end of the movie, when you see the credits, your name is listed. But the way as we would write it yeah with Polish or Latin letters. So just to be sure, was it something that you requested from them or they would put your Japanese version of your name or how did it work?

Mateusz

I actually was asked by them,

Piotrek

Okay.

Mateusz

what way of writing I would like. And I requested to be romaji. So in just our letters,

Piotrek

Okay.

Mateusz

because I wanted my fans, I started to have some people that knew about me on the over the Internet at that time. And also I wanted my family to be able to read my name

Piotrek

Of course

Mateusz

when when the end rolls scrolls through the screen. And because I was there in two places, actually, I had two chances to be in the final credits.

Piotrek

So forever you're also added to, I M DB.

Mateusz

Yeah.

Piotrek

Other list of movies

Congrats once again that you were involved in this.

huge. And then of course that the project was so successful in terms commercial

popularity among Viewers.

Mateusz

Mm hmm.

Piotrek

So that's big. And of course, you mentioned That's you. Was

------ The three things you need have before becoming freelance artist ------

Piotrek

feeling more and more this. need for freedom. Yeah, need for

Mateusz

Mm hmm.

Piotrek

creating something on your own and the book came. as one of those projects but many artists around the world , are dreaming or they are thinking of like Yeah, of course. It would be so fulfilling to be independent. Yeah to do whatever. W choose to focus on in this very moment.

And what was for you, th moment you realize that people on the internet

some like random people you do not know personally. That they are willing to pay for what you do.

Mateusz

This is actually really interesting because it came from, I think, three places. And I remember them. One was that at that point I was married to Kana.

Piotrek

Mm hmm.

Mateusz

So I could actually leave the animation studio. Because up until this point, I had to be hired by a company in Japan to stay in Japan to get the visa. So that was one thing. T second thing was that actually a publishing company contacted me. with the offer of making. The Tokyo store- fronts book. So that was another thing that I knew that if I quit from the animation studio, I have something to do I'll have something that will give me some money, no much, but hopefully the book will sell and it will also give a bit of income. And this came about actually in a really weird way, because they were making another book that was just a book of

------ How Mateusz's true fans bought his works on the spot to allow him move apartments in Japan ------

Mateusz

random cool buildings that don't exist anymore. And a lot of famous artists that I knew were participating in this book, and I was invited to do it to to do one illustration to. And I wanted to really to participate in this book. But my studio said no. so in the end I did it pro-bono. So I didn't took any money and I was able to go around it in this way. But the publisher really liked the illustration that I did. They actually wanted to put it on the cover. in the end up on the back cover and the front cover was made by Yamamoto Nizo, who is a really well-known, Japanese background painter, also animation background painter. He did, for example,the backgrounds for the girl who leapt through time. He was the main, director there. But yeah, so they wanted the book of the Tokyo storefronts. So I had something to do. And the third thing was actually, I listened to a I think it was a video of Jake Parker,

Piotrek

Okay.

Mateusz

and he was explaining I think it was him. was explaining the three things you have to have before you become freelancer, You have to have a fanbase, you have to have some money that you can leave off until you do some work. And there was like a third thing I don't remember, but I was sitting in front of my computer doing work. I was listening, to this while doing like the backgrounds, and I was like, I have everything that he said. I could actually, like, quit and, Yeah, the thing was already some work lined up, so you can start as soon as you, go outside.

Piotrek

Mm hmm.

Mateusz

So you quit your job. It was like I could just quit like today or whatever. And I have all the things that he mentioned

Piotrek

Hmm

Mateusz

and it was not so easy because first I had to finish this short animation, like directing this animation that I told you about. And, yeah, there was like some things that I had to negotiate with the studio, so it took me a bit more time to, to actually quit and start making. They took your stuff once, but yeah, it was not a decision that I took lightly. But, I really thought about it. I really planned ahead and it was a scary jump for me, but I was actually the second

------ What are the criteria to accept commisionned art projects for Mateusz? ------

Mateusz

person in our family because Kana ,, went for freelance first.

Piotrek

OK. So I also remember this other. Proof that you can do this. When you needed to move out from one place in Japan to another. And you had some work like paper paintings that you. , didn't know where to store

and you just asked some people like on tumblr. or on instagram that you are going to sell those pictures.

Mateusz

Mm hmm.

Piotrek

Because you cannot store them and then was the moment that some people.

And I think there was some guy that was working at Microsoft. That contacted. You and wanted to buy all of them,

Mateusz

Y,

Piotrek

like at once. This

Mateusz

I was really surprised at the time, I didn't realize, actually, how much,

um. How much?

Piotrek

True fans.

Mateusz

Yeah. How many true fans are there? Of my work. So I was just like, I have this series of illustrations and we have to move apartments and I don't really have any use of these, so I'll just like, put them on Tumblr and sell them and. And actually they sold like in an hour or something. And the guy was really sad, too, because before he. sent me the email, with "I want to by all of them". They were two other people who bought one and one. So he only was able to get eight of the ten. But yeah, I was so surprised that all the money that we needed to move apartments, I just gathered in, like, an hour. Of course, it's not like this easy, because I had to first paint all this stuff. They had to put the work in. It had to

Piotrek

Yeah .

Mateusz

put it online And I had to make it so people knew about it and so on. I actually spent a lot of energy on that. And that was just like the result. But yeah, it was like a Eye opening a moment for me. When I was surprised. That's what I made, actually had a lot of value.

Piotrek

Since then. I Know that you also get into some commisioned work. and also Some shorts work for some studios and also about An- other books. So please tell More about what are the projects right now? Yeah.

Mateusz

Mm hmm.

Piotrek

How do you divide let's say a week or a month. For what kind of jobs in your freelancing career right now you do?

Mateusz

I'm

------ What types of art projects Mateusz refuses to create? ------

Mateusz

a bit of a strange freelancer because I usually don't accept commissioned work. which makes me more of an artist than a freelance artist because. But I don't like this kind of sound and connotations that this word has, especially in Polish. I don't know. But I do my own things. So I did the Tokyo store fronts , book and then I did the Tokyo at Night Book and Hokkaido in Ink book, which is still like somewhere in the coronavirus limbo. But but when a job offer comes, I have a few criteria that I use to see if I can. To do this or not. One of those criteria is that I always ask if I can. Show this To the people that follow me online. So make a. Movie about this on YouTube. If I can show the result on my website and stuff. If this is just like a secretive thing that will not be shown to the public, a I cannot show it on my portfolio or whatever, I don't accept it. The second thing is that the thing has to be, I think that I would like to make either way. So it has to be along my creative direction. And the best category is if this commission will allow me to do something that I could not make otherwise. So,for example, I was asked to direct a short animation about the, shogi player Karolina Styczyńska , ,. So I was an animation director so I could make my own animated movie. Of course It was a movie about this girl who plays. shogi so the story was kind of decided what I could do whatever I wanted with this project. So I had this chance of making an animation with an animation

------ How it came to be that Mateusz was asked to direct the short animation about Karolina Styczyńska the shogo player? ------

Mateusz

studio that I chose,

Piotrek

really?

Mateusz

and I was paid for this. So that's a perfect solution. it also was pain to make this. In the end, It took a lot of effort. it was really difficult. And I spent a lot of, like nervous days and nights on this project. But if I did not get this, commission , I would not be able to make an animation like this. So that is one of the criteria that I, the look at. And also there is the theme, the story. I don't take part in works that are, you know, just like this kind of cutesy Japanese style animations that, for example, treat female characters like sexual objects or whatever. So if it's like this kind of more cutesy style that, is how do you call it derogative it to do like the female

Piotrek

Ye.

Mateusz

characters

Piotrek

Yeah.

Mateusz

or.

Piotrek

to objective.

Mateusz

Yeah, it objectifies human characters in the story I don't like or whatever. Even if it's like, I don't know what studio, I don't accept it. And the last thing is, but it has been less and less recently. if I get an email that says, do us background like, Makoto , ,, Shinkai I, I just refuse.

Piotrek

Seriously.

Mateusz

Yeah, I get I get these from time to time still. Probably just people like going through my portfolio and think, Oh, this guy worked on Your Name so he can do backgrounds like CoMix. Wave , Films does in their movies.

Piotrek

Hmm. Hmm hmm

Mateusz

So we'll just ask him to make a background for our, I don't know, game, for example.

Piotrek

hmm hmm hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Mateusz

So when I hear this,

------ What art platforms are helping Mateusz Urbanowicz to sell his works and support his freelancing? ------

Mateusz

I try to convince them that I have my own style and the Shinkai , style is just their studio style.

Piotrek

Hmm. Hmm.

Mateusz

So it's like asking someone who worked in Disney, for example, to paint something

Piotrek

Yea,

Mateusz

like

Piotrek

exactly.

Mateusz

Disney, even even though it's not his style.

Piotrek

Create a new Mickey Mouse for me, please.

Mateusz

But if they are really difficult and they just want backgrounds like Your Name or whatever, I just tell them to go to CoMix Wave, Films and ask them, t all. So yeah, I have this criteria and if a commission is if fulfils all these four or five points, and if I have time and if I feel like doing something that's not only my own work. Then I participate

in a project like the.

Piotrek

Nice Just to , , , Ask about the project with the shogo player, Karolina, Styczyńska yeah ,, if I pronounce it correctly. Was there any, like Polish side involved that connected the dots that your polish she's polish and let's do something together? Or was not anything like this?

Mateusz

From what I know, there wasn't, The whole thing started from, There is a company in Japan that makes food bars Calorie Mate.

And because the shogi chess players can eat while they play because their matches last for a really long time.

Piotrek

This is the only allowed food for them. Is it?

Mateusz

oh, yeah. They eat to go out and eat. But

Piotrek

Hm. Hmm hmm. Hmm.

Mateusz

the idea

Piotrek

Hmm.

Mateusz

behind the campaign was that they will sponsor Karolina

Piotrek

Hmm. Hmm

Mateusz

and because her name is similar to the name of the product, a Calorie Mate Karolina.

Piotrek

Ah,

Mateusz

And

Piotrek

OK

Mateusz

it's like this kind of weird thing

Piotrek

Now,

Mateusz

and

Piotrek

I get it.

Mateusz

to make this commercial they wanted to make a commercial that will show her kind of way to this point in her life where she was just to become the first professional not a Japanese female shogi player in Japan. So instead of, I don't know, going through her closet and looking for old photos, they decided to do an animation. And because I was Polish and I could just talk to her and, I knew, for example, how to paint a Warsaw. , background or Polish Poland background or whatever, and not do something stupid on the way. they decided to ask me to direct the whole thing.

Piotrek

Excellent.

Interesting story.

------ What are the benefits for people supporting Mateusz on Patreon? ------

Piotrek

I didn't know about this. Okay, so, today we are also in the realm Patreon or. Gumroad , or Society6 , or INPRNT ,. Those are some services that you using for selling or. Allowing to access to your work, to your tutorials. How does it work for you? How satisfied , are you with those kind of services?

Mateusz

I'm really surprised. I I'm really surprised and I'm really humbled about how well. Works and about how generous people are to support me. And it's not only to just buy my prints from the INPRNT or Society6 because they want. A pretty picture on their wall and they buy it. So they actually receive something for their money. But oftentimes it's just how a lot of people decide to support me for what I do. And I'm.

Really really positively surprised about.The support I receive on Patreon. Which has been awesome throughout the. I don't know. already four years that I'm freelance? I did not start Patreon as soon as I become freelance, but think it was the two years ago. But I make some conscious decisions to. how to say it. For example, I don't put commercials in YouTube. I have a lot of YouTube videos already, but I have not monetized them.

Piotrek

And that's on purpose

Mateusz

Yeah, I treat YouTube as a tool that allows me to get my videos to the viewers, but I don't, monetize the videos so I don't get money from all these videos. So I can feel, about those videos. Not like I'm a YouTuber that has to make a video once a week because people will get angry. But it's more like a bonus for my work. So when I do something, when I create something, I always remember to make a video and then upload it with my commentary to the YouTube channel and then people watch it and if they like it, they can go to my patron and for example, give me a dollar or five among.

Piotrek

very nice. Yeah.

Mateusz

And in my patron, I stated like in the top part, from the beginning that I probably will not do anything special only for Patron. So I'm not doing anything like that. It's only for a patron. There are some things that you can get if you are. $5 tier For example, you can download Hokkaido evening book for free. You can download my manga for free digital. You can download my tutorials that I have for free and I upload one high resolution painting or sketch or whatever in a like high resolution files so we can download it and then look at it. Also, you even if you are just $1 per month, you can participate in the monthly Q&A sessions that recently turned into something a bit different because I'm doing this thing where. I sent like 20 pictures to Patreon and a lot of people that follow me want to also paint are like hobby painters or professional painters. And they painted stuff based on these photos and then live on. During the Q&A, I took those paintings into Photoshop and I commented on them and did stuff like commented what I think they could do better in these works. So it is like an online workshop. So yeah, I do like these kind of things, but I don't create, I don't know, a comic that you can access only if you are a patron supporter or something. So even though there is not a straight, thing that you get if you become a patron. no. Podcast. I do not know that you cannot view otherwise. I'm really surprised how many people decide to support me.

Piotrek

Can you say? More or less. Wh is the division Let's say , 30% of. your monthly income is from Patreon. Then 30 is like Gumroad or selling brushes and tutorials and then else. How does it work for you right now?

Mateusz

This year, i my predictions are correct, probably around 40% of my income is, my commissions. And 50% probably is commissions and the money I get from my books. So my Tokyo storefronts in Tokyo at night, especially Tokyo storefronts, is still selling pretty okay. So I get dividends from this also. A the rest is online and Patreon. so, online sales and Patreon are more probably than 50% of my current income, I guess. Which gives me this awesome cushion that allows me to do my own work. I do not have to like, panically wait for the next commision email to. Come in.

Piotrek

Yeah.

Mateusz

I don't have.

Piotrek

Accept

Mateusz

I can.

Piotrek

everything they send you.

Mateusz

I can choose if I will accept a commission or not, even though I am not doing anything right now or I don't have anything planned. If a commission comes in, I don't

------ Why Mateusz didn't register a company in Japan? ------

Mateusz

like it. I can just reject it. And it also gives me the ability to do my own work, which I can again share with the Patreon , supporters and YouTube viewers, and then, for example, make a next book of it. So it's the perfect solution,

Piotrek

Very nice.

Mateusz

actually,

Piotrek

Yea.

Mateusz

I think, for the viewer to get more art that they like, and for me to just have this cushion then of money that comes every month from Patreon or online sales that allows me To do my art. And this is not like a strange YouTube algorithm that decides if my videos will be popular this month or not,which I see a lot with Kana because she has this series of short animated loop videos. Where just people eat? These like, like loop animations.And for some reason, there are times where these videos are like crazy popular.

Piotrek

Hmm.

Mateusz

Like she has millions of views on on them, like, literally. An because I don't know, some YouTube algorithm decided that this month a similar videos will be like Kana's.

Piotrek

Hmm.

Mateusz

And sometimes it just goes down and there's just a bit of viewers that view it and. the videos get just a bit of views.

Piotrek

Mm hmm. So the lowest would be like 10,000 views or even less.

Mateusz

I don't know more probably. But

Piotrek

Mm hmm.

Mateusz

she actually managed to got these videos viral,I think

Piotrek

Mm hmm.

Mateusz

But even though even if your video goes viral like this, you cannot be sure that next month you two will decide, okay, you know, the keyword

Piotrek

Yeah.

Mateusz

is not popular

Piotrek

Yea, exactly.

Mateusz

anymore and your videos will not go to the top page or whatever. Or your video is shorter than 3 minutes, so we will not show it anymore.

Piotrek

What about ads like in terms of her channel Does she use adds or not?

Mateusz

Yeah, she has. She has ads on all these videos.

Piotrek

Okay Yeah, it sounds very healthy in terms of the division yeah, that the commision is.

50%, more or less. and the Online activities are. The other 50%. So whenever some weird situation like the current pandemic is shattering the all we know, the new normal. Being born. And we are all experiencing it.

So yeah,definitely . Other artists for sure can learn from your. example. Can you share? Do you have a regular company registered in Japan, or are you considered as a one person freelance thing that you do not need to register and then, pay taxes? How does it work?

Mateusz

I am just a freelancer paying taxes. I don't have a company. We could.Register a company, but. It's actually really

------ Does Mateusz still want to direct a full featured animation? ------

Mateusz

money based. If you go above a certain. Threshold. It's just a, common sense to register a company and, have it done this way.

Piotrek

So there was no need for you up till now

Mateusz

Yeah. It's like if I was this. income obsessed. Person.

Piotrek

Hmm.

Mateusz

And

Piotrek

Hmm.

Mateusz

I would. Do everything to maximize my income and do all the commissions the. And whenever I would probably already. Be a company. But I prefer to Have this creative freedom and some free time. And have like, Decide, okay, I will just read books for half a year because I want to learn how to make better stories or whatever. And so far, I'm very, very lucky and privileged to be able to do something like this. So, yeah, for now, I'm just freelancer that is not registered as a company in Japan

Piotrek

Okay . Okay.

because That's one of the Interests of mine, I. Have my company registered in the UK and whenever I talk with different people. it doesn't matter where they are from, because sometimes I have a friend from Zimbabwe who has a company registered in Estonia with this e-residency.

Mateusz

Haha ha.

Piotrek

And it's really working for him. So it all depends. Yeah. What is the individual situation. So it's nice to hear that you can use all of those programs and also, to stay legally in Japan and do stuff without it.

Mateusz

were contacted recently by the Polish kind of body governing body that supports the small companies and stuff in Japan about the pandemic and all the programs that can be accessed to alleviate a bit of the effects of the pandemic. But luckily, I haven't been hit so much with this. also probably because either way I wanted to pause this year and not publish another book.

So. Yeah, I actually.

Wanted to. Go outside more this year.

Didn't happen to.

Piotrek

Yeah. Yeah.That , circumstances changed for us all. But let's focus back on. things that you mentioned. Before in our. conversation. I'm interested. Are you still aiming to create your own production, like full feature movie? Which means that you would need to set up a proper studio. Or maybe you kind of morph to this, dream, this idea into something different

Mateusz

I would really love to.

Though there are many problems that I don't really know I'll be able to conquer. there is this, how do you call it? The current state of Japanese visual industry,and especially Japanese animation industry, which aims for profit. So it's really hard to convince anyone that a person that is not a famous I don't know, that does not have a famous comic that is already like ten volumes and sells like 100. Or is not Recently we had like a. Really popular comedian who hired thirtythree artists to make him. A children's book which sold like a lot of copies in Japan Because he's kind of popular. And , the book it was a tear jerker. And he just hired the, 4 °C Studio to make him an animation movie or whatever. I don't have a franchise that

------ Successful creative examples of Neil Gaiman and Tomasz Bagiński ------

Mateusz

is already really popular and has like an established fanbase. So it's hard to actually show someone that, okay, this will bring you money. I would probably have to first make something like, I don't know, a comic, for example, or an online comic or a book or whatever. That would be crazy popular to be able to make an animation from this. There is another way. You can kind of go around it. We saw some examples with people using like Netflix or whatever

Piotrek

Yeah, The new verticals.

Mateusz

Yeah. Or people using crowdsourcing, in this corner of the world, there was the movie about Hiroshima, which was based on a popular, well known comic in Japan. That is true. But they chose the way of doing this through crowdsourcing and then paying their own bills and not like going through the whole,

Piotrek

The traditional established way.

Mateusz

yeah.Traditional way. So they, kind of managed to do this, but it was riddled with challenges and they spent like, I don't know, five or six years on making this movie

Piotrek

And was success Did they eventually release it?

Mateusz

Yeah, they did release it and they even did, like, a second one, Spin off kind of things, from the first one recently, which was also like crowd sourced and stuff, but. in Japan itself, it was not so widely known that even something like this existed.

Piotrek

hmm.

Mateusz

Animation fans knew that a movie like this is out there and watched it about. A lot of people were just like, Oh, a new thing popped out on Netflix or whatever three years later. so I still have this on my list of things to do. I on my list of things that I would like to do sometime. I already crossed out a lot of things. I published an art book. I took part in an animation movie.

------ Would Mateusz be interested in collaborating with Netflix or other big streaming platform to produce his animation? ------

Mateusz

I directed a short animation with Studio Colorido ,, the one about Karolina. But, yeah, the point about making a full fledged, movie based on original work is. still there just. To reach this kind of mountain peak.I will have to probably do a lot of different things in between. Maybe a comic, for example Something that would be good enough to be a strong base for this.

Piotrek

I reminds me a bit how Neil Gaiman, the author that you and I really like. He was also having this list of like, Oh, I want to make a book for children and then a book more kind of like a horror genre and then, some other projects

Mateusz

Yeah

Piotrek

here. So eventually he became. really popular and really talented in terms of how many different ways of telling a story he can create and be known for.

Mateusz

Yeah, but you have to remember that first, he really was well known from the Sandman series.

Piotrek

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mateusz

So if you go to a publisher with your children's book and you say, ,, I'm Neil Gaiman, I wrote the Sandman series and won a prize that was for novels with a comic, with the story in it. And I can do with words whatever you want, whatever I want them to do. Then you're just like, Okay, we will publish it. But if you go for an animated series or animated movie, there is this, step that requires like 300 people working on this for. Two years or something

Piotrek

Yeah,

Mateusz

and someone has to pay them. So they, They really, really. go for things that they know will sell. which is sad?

Piotrek

Yeah, because this is a big investment here, so.

Mateusz

Yeah.

Piotrek

Want to make some money out of it.

But also, I think, you know, Neil Gaiman is a person from completely different world. we can be fascinated by him but. At the same time he managed to. Start Britain and then move to US and then build his name there

Mateusz

Yeah.

Piotrek

While we have a very recent example of Tomasz Bagiński ,. Yeah. The guy who also

Mateusz

Mm hmm.

Piotrek

started. with animation And now he's also known because of The Witcher. the actual series, live action version of a book that was very, very popular in Poland,

Mateusz

Oh,It was.

Piotrek

decades ago. But only now people are discovering yeah that we have some Polish fantasy. So just in terms of Netflix, are you aware or did you did some research of how does it work to even talk with guys from Netflix and maybe have some investment from them?

Mateusz

I have not approached them yet. Directly with a project or something because I don't have anything right now.

Piotrek

Hm. Hmm.

Mateusz

I know some people that pitch things to Netflix so far on successfully, but I was actually invited to a project that I didn't take part in. in the end, that was a full animation series on Netflix.

Piotrek

Hmm. Hmm.

Mateusz

And there is this one problem with Netflix that even though this network allows for more freedom and gives money to people that would not be able to do their work otherwise, they are really picky about what they want to put on their platform. And especially they like it seems that they like things that are kind of disturbing. So you get.

Piotrek

You cannot tell a peaceful story. About love.

Mateusz

Yeah. So you, you get you get things that are kind of. If you open Netflix ,.For me. I get to do Stranger Things too, like a strange monster thing in front. An then I just scroll through their library and I really see this trend of things being weirdly dark and disturbing. And, I recently talked with a friend that actually is making something for Netflix, and I kind of as a joke told him like, okay,but isn't Netflix only making like, dark, disturbing things? And are you also making a dark, disturbing thing? And he was like, well, yeah,

Piotrek

How did you know?

Mateusz

we can I can I can tell you what it is about, but it is dark and disturbing. Yeah. So, yeah,

Piotrek

So that.

Mateusz

I don't know. Netflix probably has the most money around, but I don't know if it's the best place for for me either. Maybe, I don't know, Amazon Prime Or Hulu or whatever. But,yeah, I still think that. I still have to have something actually to show them. I and this is the thing that I am aiming for now to have something strong.

------ Where to find Mateusz's art online and the podcast summary ------

Mateusz

As a story, as a platform that I could pitch to someone or if just I feel like it, I can make it into a book or manga or whatever. For me, it's more difficult to make a nice thing and then think, what form I could, finish it with. So it will be a comic or will be the short story or will be an illustration series , or whatever. And if I feel like, okay, this would be a perfect movie for Netflix, it has just the right amount of disturbing in it. I would just I would I would pitch it to Netflix, But.

Piotrek

Hahaha,Ye . I think We should always have a space for nice and, more kind of tranquil style storytelling. And, I do appreciate your style. I really like how, you create your characters, or even if it's a short animation, like a loop or animation or something, it's really, I don't know, like, for me, it brings a bit of this nostalgia that, the.

Mateusz

Mm hmm.

Piotrek

anime are the things that I was watching as a kid was not always disturbing, yeah. It was not always.

Mateusz

Yeah.

Piotrek

About Fighting with monsters from space. But sometimes it was just, you know, a story about life in terms of my neighbor Totoro. Yeah, I.

Mateusz

Ye.

Piotrek

That's one of the very nice calm and warm, and family oriented story that we lack of Today.

Mateusz

There is a certain. Hard to distinguish difference between something that has violence and, for example, like disturbing things in it.

Piotrek

Hmm. Hmm.

Mateusz

For a story let's mention, for example, Princess Mononoke in this.

Piotrek

Mm

Mateusz

It has a scene where someone shoots the ball at someone else and rips their arms out

Piotrek

hmm.

Mateusz

with the arrow, but at the same time you have some series on Netflix where , from the get go, the idea is to show something that is disturbing or dark or whatever. And , That's the starting point for them. I was really excited about, death love, robots, kind of short

Piotrek

Yeah,

Mateusz

animation.

Piotrek

that was very interesting.

Mateusz

because there are some, really good artists working on, that. But in the end, I don't think I liked one of these. because just of, the stories that were there, that's it.

Piotrek

Yeah. It's kind of like one dimensional way of thinking. So, yeah, let's wrap the whole conversation we have here. before we go,could you tell where people should find you online? Where you are?

Mateusz

I think the most easy way to find me. It's via my website, which just my name Mateusz Urbanowicz, , dot com. It will probably be link to below the podcast.

Piotrek

Yes.

Mateusz

But if you just wanted to look at a lot of my art and see me doing it and hear me. Explaining about each of the piece. it's the best probably to go to my YouTube channel and look at the videos.

Piotrek

Hmm.

Mateusz

I try to upload about one video per week. But as I said before, this is just like a byproduct of my work. So, yeah, sometimes there is more,sometimes there's less. But there is a video like hundreds of videos there that you can you can see of watercolors and digital and all kinds of stuff.

Piotrek

That's the perfect way to. Learn more about what You do and what is your way of creating? We cannot show it in the podcast, but it is easy to look and check what you do currently online and what will be your next project. So thank you very much for the whole conversation. Mateusz? It was very nice to talk with you. And I wish you to create your projects the way you like to do this.

Mateusz

Thank you. I will try. I will try my best.

Piotrek

Hmm.

Mateusz

Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. I had a great time speaking to you. And I hope that my image of the Japanese industry was not too dark. at the end, I would like just to tell you that there is a lot of great art and a lot of great artists and I out of great animations and stuff that makes our days brighter. And if you like something and not mine, but just someone's just. Dig a little bit deeper and try to support them because they give you all the Netflix series or whatever that support us in this hard time also. So yeah.

Piotrek

Excellent. Thank you again. And, see you soon.

Mateusz

Thank you. See you soon.